Your Home Might Be Tiring You Out. Here’s Why - Lucy Wahl

0:00 OK, so there's a couple different things going on here.

0:01 Number one, it's like the clutter in your visual space is

0:04 very distracting #2 clutter represents something that needs

0:11 to be done. Each object that makes up

0:14 clutter is a decision that needs to be made, or a task that needs

0:17 to be done, or a question that needs to be answered.

0:20 That's why it's clutter. It becomes clutter because

0:22 you're like, I don't know what to do with this.

0:23 And so I just put it down and it becomes clutter.

0:26 So clutter represents work you're going to have to do,

0:30 energy you're gonna have to expend, time you're gonna have

0:32 to spend to deal with it. And that's part of why it's so

0:36 stressful to us because we're like, oh God, I know that that

0:38 pile is waiting for me and it's going to be tough.

0:44 Most of us have probably been told to clean up your mess at

0:48 some point by a parent, a spouse, or that voice in our own

0:52 head. And while I can feel nagging or

0:55 necessary, today's conversation revealed something deeper.

0:59 The state of our space is closely tied to the state of our

1:02 mind. My guest, Lucy Wall, helped me

1:05 uncover how organization quietly supports our mental well-being

1:10 and why it's so much more than just having things look nice.

1:16 Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and

1:20 I'll be diving into the minds of incredible people, each an

1:24 expert in their very own way. Together, we'll uncover insights

1:28 and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to

1:31 navigate your own unique journey in life.

1:34 Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?

1:37 Let's blend. Hello, our guest today is

1:44 someone you wish you had on speed dial.

1:47 She doesn't just organize homes, she helps people clear the

1:51 mental and emotional clutter that holds them back.

1:54 For over a decade, she's shown everyone from busy families to

1:57 CE OS that getting organized isn't about perfection, is about

2:01 creating space for the life you actually want.

2:05 Please welcome. Lucy Milligan Wall, founder of

2:08 LMW Edits, a company that helps busy professionals and their

2:12 families create organized spaces they love to make everyday life

2:16 easier. Hi Lucy, welcome to Mindline.

2:19 Thanks for having me, happy to be here.

2:21 So I, I got a fair amount of episodes, I have talked to

2:26 guests about clarity, clearing space in their mind, organizing

2:31 their thoughts, but we haven't really talked about the physical

2:34 aspect of mess. So I'm really excited about

2:37 today's conversation. So for our listeners, can you

2:42 tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you got into

2:45 this field? Yeah, so I grew up as a very

2:50 organized kid. My dad was a very organized

2:53 person and he taught us how to be organized.

2:56 And it was very important to him that we do that.

2:59 But I, I took to it naturally. Like when I was a kid, if I'd

3:02 get like a box of crayons for like the new school year, the

3:04 first thing I would do would dump, be to dump them out, put

3:07 them in the order of the rainbow and put them back into the box.

3:09 So I do come by a little bit, honestly, but I never thought I

3:13 would make it a career. I, you know, did what you're

3:16 supposed to do. I went to college, I started a

3:17 career in nonprofit fundraising. I got a little impatient.

3:21 I went and got an MBA and the MBA was what changed my life.

3:25 And weirdly, although I don't recommend, this led to me

3:28 starting a small business. I was in my MBA program, learned

3:31 a ton. I was going to go back into

3:34 nonprofit fundraising, and when I started interviewing, the

3:37 nonprofit industry didn't really know how to take advantage of

3:40 somebody with an MBA. And it was basically, I was

3:42 going to be interviewed for the same job I had done before,

3:45 except more zeros at the end of the goal.

3:48 And I just thought, man, I just had the best two years in my

3:51 life learning so much, figuring out how to be a leader, meeting

3:55 so many cool people, being inspired.

3:58 And I'm just going to go back where I started.

3:59 Like that's not good. And I was pretty down about it.

4:03 And it was actually my husband who said, you know what, like

4:05 I've got a job. We're fine.

4:07 Like, take some time, think about it, figure out what you

4:10 really want to do. You don't have to get a job

4:11 right now just to get a job, which is a huge gift, right?

4:14 Like I'm so lucky. And then it was, what am I going

4:17 to do? I don't, I'm not wild about any

4:20 of the other industries I was exposed to in Business School,

4:23 but everybody was starting companies out of Business

4:25 School. And I thought, you know, if the

4:27 dude sitting next to me in the same class I'm taking can start

4:31 like a tech start up, I can surely start something, you

4:34 know? And so then it became a process

4:37 of what am I good at? What can I start without going

4:40 to more expensive school and talk to friends and family?

4:44 And what came back to me was you're really organized.

4:47 You should try and make something out of that.

4:48 And this is back in the early twenty 10s, Bree Condo wasn't

4:51 even famous yet. The organizing industry was much

4:54 smaller. People don't even know if it if

4:56 it was a thing. And but I did some research and

4:59 thought, you know what, this number one, this is a thing.

5:01 And #2 I think I can bring something different to the party

5:04 because a lot of the organizing industry and organizing content

5:08 at that time was focused on a very like typical suburban

5:12 American life. And that was not the life that I

5:16 was living. It was not the life my friends

5:18 were living. And I thought, if I can do this

5:19 for busy professionals in a city, I'll really have something

5:23 here. So that's how it started.

5:25 When you were just describing the when you went through

5:29 Southern Living, was it Southern Living?

5:31 The magazine came to my. It's still around, Yeah.

5:35 Southern Living, Martha Stewart, real simple, all of that, Yeah.

5:40 It is so frustrating to just do the same job but with all the

5:44 school loans. Yes, yeah, I know it was, it

5:48 was, it was a daunting prospect and I'm really lucky that I had

5:51 sort of a way to take a left turn and do something else.

5:54 Well, I'm glad you did So in the beginning, how did you market

5:59 your business? So it's always been word of

6:02 mouth. I've never paid for advertising

6:05 except for a very ill advised stint on Yelp early on.

6:08 I do not recommend. But I it was always word of

6:13 mouth and also social media and SEO.

6:15 So from the beginning I had a good website.

6:18 I've been blogging since I launched the website and have

6:22 done my own SEO optimization the whole way along.

6:25 And I, I talked to everybody about it.

6:29 I mean, so this is the interesting thing about having

6:31 an MBA and that experience applied to small business.

6:33 So in Business School, they were really honest about networking.

6:36 You need to be going to networking events when you show

6:39 up. You need to be going up to

6:40 people, introducing yourself, talking about what you can bring

6:43 to the table. They were big on having your

6:45 32nd elevator pitch to be able to pitch yourself to whoever,

6:48 whenever. And I always found it incredibly

6:50 cringe and incredibly awkward. And I think it was partially

6:53 because I didn't really believe that I should be selling myself

6:57 for any of, to any of these people.

6:59 I didn't think I had the skills in this, in this department.

7:03 And so it, it always was a mismatch.

7:07 As soon as I realized I wanted to start an organizing business

7:11 and I started talking to people, I found that I could not shut

7:14 up. I and still to this day, if you

7:16 get me going on home organizing, I will go forever.

7:19 Like I actually have to work at like really looking at the

7:22 person I'm talking to. And is this person really like

7:25 enjoying what I'm saying or are they kind of like, yeah, yeah,

7:27 yeah, yeah. You're crazy, lady.

7:29 OK, stop. So it's it's, I'm super

7:33 passionate about it. I love it.

7:35 And the second I found this, this job, this business

7:39 networking became no problem at all, in fact, kind of fun.

7:43 And so that's kind of why word of mouth has really been my

7:46 thing because I don't find it awkward to like, say to a

7:48 client, it's been so great working with you.

7:50 We really loved it. Would you recommend this to your

7:52 friends? And it feels authentic and it

7:53 doesn't feel gross and achy so. So what was your 32nd elevator

8:00 pitch? Gosh, back in the day, I don't

8:02 even remember now would be, well, I'm a professional

8:06 organizer and I love helping busy professionals organize

8:08 their homes. I find it really makes everyday

8:10 life a lot easier. And then people are like,

8:13 really? You're an organizer like Marie

8:15 Kondo? And then we're off to the races.

8:19 Do you see yourself like a merry condo?

8:21 Because I know her big thing is organizing, but there's a lot of

8:25 dumping. Yes.

8:25 So I am very inspired by her. I'm very impressed by her and

8:31 and the sort of empire that she's built.

8:33 I don't work in exactly the same way she does.

8:36 There are organizers who can get a certification to do her

8:38 method. I don't have that certification.

8:40 I don't sell myself as having that, but again, I'm super

8:43 inspired by her and I agree with her that getting rid of as much

8:47 as possible is most of the work. And when I work with clients,

8:50 that is in fact most of the work that we do.

8:52 So I'm sure when people come to you, they all have like one

8:56 problem, yes, organized, like it's a mess.

8:59 What are some of the surprising psychological patterns that you

9:03 have observed in your? Clients, there are so many.

9:05 There's a lot of behavioral science research that's come out

9:07 in the past few years that has been very popular in the popular

9:10 press. And a lot of these things

9:13 weirdly show up in organizing. For example, delayed

9:16 gratification. Humans are terrible at delayed

9:19 gratification. We want the hit of dopamine now.

9:22 We do not want to go through pain now for pleasure in the

9:25 future. Organizing success at being

9:28 organized is all about delayed gratification.

9:31 It's taking the moment to tidy up now so that this weekend

9:35 isn't terrible and I have to spend all day Sunday putting

9:38 away mess. So I talked about that very

9:41 openly with my clients because I think a lot of people judge

9:43 themselves like I can't seem to tidy up.

9:46 What's wrong with me? Nothing's wrong with you.

9:48 You're a human. Your brain has been wired to try

9:51 and get that dopamine hit right now.

9:53 And so instead I try to reframe it for my clients and talk about

9:56 like, how good are you going to feel when you you look around

9:59 this room and it's tidy today. And and and to emphasize that

10:04 this is just the way your brain works and not that you're a

10:06 terrible person who doesn't know how to do this.

10:08 Yeah, that's a very good point because you will never see

10:11 instant gratification. No.

10:13 When it comes to organizing. No, I mean I felt organizing

10:16 under things in life that bring immense rewards but require a

10:20 lot of work. Those things include fitness,

10:24 diet, parenting, like these things are all about the long

10:28 game. If you don't put in work every

10:30 day, you're not going to get to the place that you want to get

10:32 to. There's no instant gratification

10:34 available. There is no magic bullet and

10:36 being organized, Having a tidy home is the same way.

10:39 There's no there's no silver bullet.

10:41 There's no container you can buy that will make your home

10:44 organized. Yeah, something that like when a

10:48 lot of people, they start on this, I'm going to organize my

10:50 home journey, they go and buy containers.

10:52 Yes they do. Since you mentioned containers,

10:55 that's just like one thing that came to mind.

10:58 What are some of the struggles? That you see, I think a big

11:02 struggle that I see is if you don't know what it's like to

11:05 have an organized home, you don't even know what you're

11:07 missing. So this has a lot to do with

11:09 family of origin. If you grew up in a home where

11:12 nobody was doing the tasks of organizing regularly and

11:16 teaching you how to do them, you're not gonna grow up knowing

11:19 how to do them. And there's also, like, a lot of

11:22 sociological assumptions that we make, like, you know, if you

11:24 grow up and get married, you may have unconscious expectations

11:27 that your spouse is going to take care of certain things and

11:29 you won't have to think about them.

11:31 Your spouse may think the same about you.

11:32 Now we have a fight, right? And, and we didn't intend to

11:35 have a fight, but it's just these unconscious expectations

11:38 that we have for how we keep our homes and who's going to be

11:41 responsible for doing it. So some people, some of my

11:45 clients have told me that I saved their marriages.

11:47 I can see it just. By calling out, here is the

11:50 stuff, here are the things that have to be done, who is going to

11:55 do it? And that that question I feel

11:58 like we don't ask because life is moving at such a fast pace.

12:01 It's just like we're just trying to survive from day-to-day.

12:04 And I come in and I and I sort of take the pressure off and go,

12:08 let's be intentional about this. Let's make decisions about our

12:12 stuff in our space, holistically in the context of our lives,

12:15 rather than like I need to survive this minute and move on

12:18 to the next. So do you see it as a cause of

12:21 stress like clutter? Is it cause of stress or is it

12:24 assembly in terms of something deeper that's going on in

12:27 someone's life, just from your observation?

12:30 OK, so there's a couple different things going on here.

12:32 Number one, it's like the clutter in your visual space is

12:34 very distracting #2 clutter represents something that needs

12:41 to be done. Each object that makes up

12:44 clutter is a decision that needs to be made, or a task that needs

12:48 to be done, or a question that needs to be answered.

12:50 That's why it's clutter. It becomes clutter because

12:52 you're like, I don't know what to do with this.

12:53 And so I just put it down and it becomes clutter.

12:56 So clutter represents work you're going to have to do,

13:00 energy you're going to have to expend, time you're going to

13:02 have to spend to deal with it. And that's part of why it's so

13:06 stressful to us because we're like, oh God, I know that that

13:09 pile is waiting for me and it's going to be tough.

13:12 And so when people are used to clutter, they don't kind of

13:16 realize the weight that that's adding to their lives.

13:18 I mean, so many times I'm with a client and we've done the

13:21 decluttering and we've done the organizing, and I bring them

13:23 into the room to see the final project product.

13:26 And you literally see their shoulders drop.

13:28 And they're just like, oh, this is so much better.

13:32 And they didn't even realize how stressed they were until the

13:36 clutter was gone. And they're like Oh my God this

13:38 is a different feeling. I literally had a client tell me

13:40 when she was like I feel like I've lost 10 lbs.

13:45 So like besides the subconscious weight, what are some of the

13:49 things that you think clutter at home may affect their life, like

13:54 their relationship or their work or leadership?

13:58 Can you share a story about how it shifted people's professional

14:02 confidence besides the saving the marriage?

14:05 Yeah, yeah, it definitely saves marriages.

14:08 So home is a place where we recharge, right?

14:12 Like we can't be effective at work if we don't have a way to

14:16 recharge. And if you come through the door

14:18 and you're faced with clutter you have to deal with, that's

14:22 not a recharge. And that makes you tired.

14:25 It weighs on you. It's not the necessary that your

14:29 performance will suffer, but you're missing out on a major

14:33 upgrade that you won't experience if you don't have a

14:36 tidy home. So I the people I work with are

14:38 extremely high power CEOs, people in tech, lawyers,

14:43 doctors, all these kind of people.

14:46 And usually I work with couples, They both have these high power

14:49 jobs. They have a family, they're

14:50 going 90 miles an hour all the time.

14:53 And in that case, it's even more critical that when they come

14:57 home, that's a place where they can recharge and it's not taking

15:02 a lot of their time and energy to deal with the mess.

15:06 So one of these couples, I think he's a works at a hedge fund.

15:09 She does law for a tech firm. They had two little kids,

15:13 beautiful home nanny and a housekeeper.

15:16 And part of what what their struggle was was with all these

15:20 people in the home going 90 miles an hour.

15:22 Everyone in the home was doing their best to declutter and tidy

15:25 and put away, but they were all doing it different ways.

15:28 And so no one could find anything after someone else had

15:30 cleaned up. And so our job was to not only

15:33 remove the clutter, but also to be very intentional about where

15:37 everything went, being very clear about labeling.

15:40 And the photos from that project are kind of insane because

15:42 there's labels absolutely everywhere.

15:44 But that was necessary in order to get these four different

15:47 independent people on the same page in the same space.

15:50 And when we were done, the the wife looked at me and she was

15:53 like, you've just improved our quality of life.

15:56 So how were you intentional? So we put labels wherever we

16:02 think we need them. It's typical to put them on

16:04 containers. That's great.

16:05 But also sometimes you don't need a container, but you should

16:08 put it on the front of the shelf or you should put it on the top

16:11 of the drawer so that when you open the drawer, there's a label

16:13 right there just to make sure that there's no like empty space

16:17 where someone can shove something when they're not quite

16:20 sure. Because that leads to clutter

16:22 too. If, if, and we do this a lot

16:24 where if there's an open space of any kind, whether it's a

16:27 shelf in a closet, whether it's a dining room table, whether

16:30 it's some drawer, we will intentionally fill it so that it

16:36 doesn't accumulate random clutter.

16:37 We, we have a location for stuff that you put with that you have

16:42 to deal with and that's it. We don't allow it to spread

16:44 anywhere else. So that could mean styling a

16:47 dining room table as if people are going to sit down and eat so

16:49 that there's no place to put stuff.

16:51 That could mean like putting containers on a shelf.

16:54 They don't have anything in them, but there's containers

16:57 there. So that so that whoever lives

16:58 there has to think, oh, there's a container there.

17:01 Is that where I want to store this type of thing?

17:04 Should I put a label on it instead of let me just shove it

17:06 on that shelf and be done? That's interesting.

17:09 So growing up, I was fortunate enough to also have a

17:12 housekeeper. So the housekeeper would be

17:15 tidying things like after three seconds of you leaving whatever

17:19 on the table, it would have been cleared away or at least like

17:22 stacked up nicely. But I can't find them.

17:26 Yeah, open the drawer. Things don't belong together,

17:29 but they're together. But I like, it doesn't bother me

17:32 because that's not my drawer. But when I open something, I'm

17:34 like, why is this here? So I'm really impressed of the

17:38 label and just not letting someone shove things in it.

17:41 You're not stationed there permanently.

17:44 Right. Exactly.

17:45 And and that is something we really focus on is setting up

17:49 systems that our clients can maintain themselves.

17:51 We and we're teaching them throughout the process like This

17:54 is why we're doing this. And we keep asking them like,

17:57 here's what we're thinking, is this going to work for you?

17:59 Does this make sense to you? And it's a lot of back and forth

18:02 and really creating systems that make a lot of sense for that

18:06 particular family, whether or not it looks the prettiest to an

18:10 outsider. But yeah, I mean, we this is a

18:12 lot of this is a frustration that a lot of people who have

18:14 housekeepers have that is sort of not nobody talks about it,

18:17 but they have this frustration because the housekeeper is

18:20 trying to make you happy. And they know that you will be

18:23 happy if everything is clean and you can't see any clutter.

18:26 But the housekeeper doesn't know what your organizing system is.

18:29 So what they're going to do is put the stuff that the closest

18:32 place that they see where it can fit to give you what they think

18:36 you want. So if you want them to use an

18:39 organizing system, you have to show them.

18:41 Yeah. So like there are so many

18:44 things, bias, misunderstanding about organizing, like, oh, it's

18:48 supposed to be your job, but without communicating.

18:52 So I want to give you a few situations or excuses or reason

18:56 that people want to postpone the organizing.

18:59 And I want to see how you would reframe their mindset.

19:03 Often times you hear I'll get to it when I have more time.

19:06 Yes, I hear this a lot. When have you ever discovered

19:10 that? More time.

19:11 I mean, this comes up with a lot of things with, with hobbies,

19:14 with craft projects, with, you know, some sort of long term

19:18 thing. Oh gosh, with making photo

19:19 albums. That's a big one.

19:21 People will just put all their photos in a bin in the garage

19:23 and say, oh, I'm gonna make photo albums when I have time.

19:26 When have you ever discovered any extra free time?

19:29 Especially for clients like mine who, again, are going 90 miles

19:31 an hour with their work and their kids and everything.

19:34 Getting organized and setting up organizing systems is just like

19:38 any other project. You need to block the time for

19:41 it and commit the time to it, and that means you're

19:44 prioritizing it. And now you have to make the

19:46 choice to prioritize it. If you say I'll just do it

19:49 whenever I have more time, that means you're not prioritizing

19:51 it, and that's fine. That's your decision, But if you

19:54 really believe in the power of an organized town, which I do,

19:57 and you really want to prioritize it, then you do have

20:00 to set aside the time. Or talk to you or.

20:05 Talk to me exactly and I will. They can buy some time.

20:09 They can buy some time by talking to you.

20:11 Exactly. OK, the next situation is I know

20:16 where everything is, even if it looks messy.

20:20 So that can be the case. And that is a, a flavor of an

20:25 organizing system that someone has developed, right?

20:27 Like this three typical with pilers.

20:29 Pilers are like, oh, well, I can, I can lay hands on it in a

20:32 second. And that may be true.

20:34 And I always tell people, if your system works for you and

20:36 it's not bothering you, I don't have a problem with it.

20:40 If you don't think you need to be organized, I'm not here to

20:42 convince you that you do. I would invite you to consider,

20:46 as we mentioned, the effects of clutter on your cortisol levels,

20:50 and I would invite you to consider whether or not it's

20:52 affect it's affecting anyone else in your home.

20:54 If you live alone, you can do whatever you want with your

20:57 space. If you live with other people,

21:00 you are gonna need to compromise on some level.

21:03 And I talked to my clients about this all the time.

21:06 And I, by the way, I'm not always making the less organized

21:09 one come to the organized one. I'm often making the organized

21:12 one loosen up a little bit and say, give them this space.

21:17 They can do what they want in it and that'll and you have to let

21:21 it go. And I have to do this myself.

21:23 I mean, my husband has a Home Office.

21:25 I am not allowed to talk about the.

21:28 Organization. Systems they're in unless he

21:30 invites me to contribute, right? And that's because I really

21:34 believe that everyone needs to own their own stuff and own

21:38 their own space. When you don't feel ownership,

21:40 when you don't feel empowered to own your stuff, you are not

21:44 likely to take care of it. You're not likely to be

21:46 organized, and you're likely to resent everybody else in your

21:49 home for getting all up in your business.

21:52 So I'm a really big fan of very clearly delineating spaces and

21:57 tasks and assigning each space and each task to one person.

22:00 Like, I don't want you to mix and mingle your clothes in the

22:02 closet. I want you to draw a line.

22:04 And this is 1 spouse in the this is another.

22:06 Even with kids, I want you to draw a line down the middle of

22:09 the room. If they share a room, This is

22:10 one side, this is the other. Because if you don't assign

22:13 specific people, then there is a vacuum of responsibility and

22:16 nothing gets done and everyone gets mad at each other.

22:19 Wow, that's life changing. Coming into this conversation, I

22:24 was thinking you would organize a space.

22:26 Everyone would need to be OK starting today, you have these

22:30 new rules. Yeah, but I, I it didn't come to

22:33 mind that you would like. You can do whatever you want

22:36 with the space if you don't feel like that's affecting you.

22:39 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I never, ever tried

22:42 to sell my services to someone who doesn't actively want them.

22:45 It doesn't work. The number one predictor of

22:48 whether I will have a success, have success with the client is

22:51 whether or not they're willing to change their behavior.

22:53 If you are not willing to change your behavior, I cannot help

22:56 you. So yeah, but people often kind

22:58 of like, Oh, my mom, some needs you or like, oh, my best friend

23:01 needs you. I'm like, great, have them call

23:02 me. They never do because they don't

23:05 see a problem. And that's fine.

23:07 I'm here to help if you see you have a problem and if you are

23:09 happy with the way your life is and your spaces, that's great

23:12 with me. OK, and I have one more evise.

23:15 I work better in chaos. It's just how I am.

23:18 Yeah. My question would then be, have

23:20 you ever tried it another way? If you've tried working in a

23:24 tidy space and you just really hated it, awesome, great, do

23:29 what works for you. But I do find that again, like

23:33 I'm saying, if you grow up in kind of chaos and you've always

23:35 been in chaos and that's just kind of how you understand life

23:39 to be. You don't know that a different

23:42 way would work, would would not work better for you because you

23:44 haven't tried it. And I'm often in a position with

23:48 a family where one of the spouses has brought me in and

23:52 the other spouse is a little skeptical.

23:53 They're like, what are you? What are you really going to do

23:55 here? Like you're going to put some

23:56 stuff in boxes and put a label on and call it a day.

23:58 This is not going to change my life.

23:59 And I do not try and push them. I work with whoever wants to

24:03 work with me and we leave the other person alone.

24:05 It's a it's kind of a process of show not tell.

24:08 Like I'm going to work with this person and you're going to see

24:11 that their life is is changing and you're and you're going to

24:13 want a piece of that. And that's usually what happens.

24:15 I mean, I had a client, this is now years ago.

24:17 It was a couple and the, the main point of contention

24:21 organizing wise in their marriage was there was a pile of

24:23 clutter in their bedroom. And the story was it was her

24:27 pile. And if she would just figure out

24:29 how to not pile, then everything would be fine.

24:33 OK, so she and I started going through the pile.

24:36 I would say maybe 30% of it was his stuff and he had no idea it

24:40 was in there. And so, but by just showing him

24:43 like, hey, here's the stuff she says it's yours, what would you

24:45 like to do with it? And he was just like, Oh my God.

24:50 So I I do believe that if you can try another way, it might

24:59 work better for you, and I encourage people to be open to

25:01 considering alternate methods, especially if they've never

25:04 tried them. Yeah, the what you brought up

25:06 about if you've worked in a really tidy space and you hated

25:10 it, fine. Because, like, sometimes people

25:13 don't realize it because I don't know if you've seen this movie,

25:17 is Anne Hathaway and Robert De Niro.

25:21 So the Intern. Oh.

25:23 I haven't seen it, but I've heard of it, yeah.

25:24 So spoiler alert, there's basically there's one scene

25:29 where there's a pile of mess in the office.

25:31 People just keep adding to it. But then one day it got cleared

25:34 up and then it made like such an impact.

25:37 So I was just thinking of that when you were describing it.

25:40 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, I think you know

25:43 when you're used to something, when you're used to clutter, you

25:46 don't know that it's affecting you and you'll only know if you

25:49 experience something different. Absolutely.

25:52 I have family members who said I it makes me feel more like home.

25:56 It makes me feel like it's my space.

25:58 Well, so here's the thing. I think people don't understand

26:02 that you can have a space that's full of personality and mementos

26:08 and color, color and life without clutter.

26:13 So clutter and design are different.

26:16 Clutter does not mean design. Clutter means stuff you haven't

26:21 dealt with. I work with clients with various

26:25 design styles and I will, I will style all of your colorful,

26:30 wonderful, meaningful things to look beautiful in your space,

26:33 but that doesn't mean clutter. It's those are two different

26:36 things and I think people conflate them.

26:38 So for this last part, I'd like to play rapid fire questions so

26:41 we can get to know a little bit about your style.

26:44 First one, if your life were a drawer, what would be in the top

26:49 section? My life were a drawer what what

26:52 would be in the top section. Oh gosh, probably like my

26:56 passport because I love to travel.

27:00 Smart. And when there's fire, hopefully

27:03 there is not. You should grab your passport.

27:05 Yeah, I mean, I do live in California.

27:07 You never know. Yeah.

27:09 OK, what's the first thing you do getting out of bed and the

27:12 last thing you do before going to sleep?

27:15 First thing I do getting out of bed is let my dog out.

27:19 OK. Because she is like the light of

27:23 our lives and we do everything for her.

27:25 And my husband and I joke that our we bought our house because

27:28 of our dog. We have a schedule because of

27:31 our dog. Like, we, we are those people.

27:33 So yeah. And then the last thing I do

27:35 before going to bed at night is I read and my husband kisses me

27:38 on the cheek. Nice.

27:42 OK, when when was the last time your house was a mess?

27:46 And what was in the mess? OK, so after we throw a party,

27:52 it's a mess. And so my husband and I love to

27:55 throw parties and we are not precious about it.

27:59 We like it's just glass of cups everywhere.

28:02 We put out trash cans, but they can't keep up with the mess like

28:05 food everywhere. Like we do not.

28:08 It's, it's interesting because people kind of expect organizers

28:10 to be very formal in their lifestyle.

28:12 And we have, we are lucky enough to have a beautiful home.

28:15 We worked with an interior designer to make it pretty, but

28:19 we want everything to be comfortable and casual when we

28:22 have people over. And so we always put food out in

28:24 a buffet. It's always like grab your own

28:25 drink. And so after a party, it is,

28:29 it's a situation it takes like all morning the next morning to

28:33 run the dishwasher and wipe down the surfaces and take out all

28:37 the trash and all that stuff. So, but I mean, it's, it's

28:40 temporary mess. It's not permanent mess.

28:42 And as long as we keep up after it the next day, it's like it's

28:45 you're, you're kind of going around cleaning up and you're

28:47 like, well, this kind of sucks, man.

28:48 It was worth it. We had such a good time last

28:49 night. So I'm glad you're not Monica

28:53 Geller. No, Oh my God.

28:58 You know, it's, it's actually interesting.

28:59 A lot of organizers are perfectionists and really do

29:03 want everything to be exactly right and perfect and formal.

29:06 And I am actually not that way. I'm very much a satisficer.

29:10 Like good enough is good enough. And I, I really want to pass

29:14 that on to my clients too, because a lot of my clients,

29:16 especially those who suffer from ADHD, have a feeling that if I

29:20 can't do it perfectly, why would I do it at all?

29:22 And I really want to dispel that because your, your, your quality

29:26 of life is improved by incremental improvements, not by

29:30 being perfect. Yeah, I know the listeners can't

29:32 see Lucy, but she does have a really beautiful home and is

29:36 very organized. Thank you.

29:39 So for anyone who wants to get your help, what can they do?

29:44 I know you only do San Francisco right?

29:47 So I do in person organizing. So that's the kind you see on TV

29:50 when we come into your home and we do all the things.

29:52 I do that in the Bay Area, in San Francisco.

29:55 I do that at the Lake Tahoe area in California, and I do that in

29:59 the Santa Barbara and Ventura area in California, because

30:01 those are the places where I have family.

30:03 But I do virtual organizing for anyone, anywhere, so if you want

30:06 to work with me on Zoom or FaceTime, we can do that.

30:09 Great. I'm going to leave your website

30:12 and your contact, your info in the show notes so people can

30:16 reach out to you. Lucy.

30:17 Fantastic. Thank you so much.

30:19 Thank you for coming to mind Glen.

30:21 Like this is something that I think everyone should hear.

30:25 I mean, I agree. Yeah.

30:27 Thank you. Thank you.

30:34 Thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.

30:36 If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to follow and share

30:39 it with anyone who needs to hear it.

30:41 And let's keep the conversation going.

30:43 Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.

30:47 Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's

30:50 continue to blend our minds and discover what's possible.