The Emotional Tax of Being Capable - Adaku Mbagwu

0:00 Well, I'm Nigerian and in evil culture, every first born

0:05 daughter is given a name beginning Ada ADA.

0:08 So when you say your name, people are like, oh, you're the

0:10 adat adat who means first born daughter.

0:14 It's not fair that my family is suffering this much.

0:16 I have to do something about this.

0:19 And I think that's when I signed the way my childhood.

0:21 My mom ended up meeting someone divorcing my dad would getting

0:25 remarried and he became schizophrenic.

0:27 So her attention went to him. I became, I am a full time mom,

0:30 so I was cooking clean and helping my siblings with their

0:34 homework as well as being a kid and doing my homework.

0:38 And you know, that was kind of the expectation.

0:43 Well, I felt like it was an expectation.

0:46 Some of us are raised to lead, and some of us are simply wired

0:50 that way. But what happens when that sense

0:53 of responsibility becomes your default setting?

0:56 When being strong turns into being the one who holds it all

0:59 together? So my guest today, Adaku Mbagu,

1:04 is someone she calls the first Daughter Disruptor.

1:07 She's a founder of a company heel, and she helps high

1:11 achieving women unlearn the need to carry everyone's weight and

1:15 redefine what it means to lead with ease, grace and power.

1:22 Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and

1:26 I'll be diving into the minds of incredible people, each an

1:29 expert in their very own way. Together, we'll uncover insights

1:33 and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to

1:37 navigate your own unique journey in life.

1:39 Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?

1:42 Let's blend. Hi Adaku, welcome to MIND BLEND.

1:49 Hi, Karen, thank you so much for having me.

1:52 I'm happy to be here. I'm really, really excited to

1:55 talk to you because as I mentioned, you're the first

1:59 starter disruptor. So kind of implies that you're a

2:03 first daughter. I'm a first daughter too.

2:05 So we're going to talk a lot about that today.

2:08 And but listeners, even if you're not a first born

2:11 daughter, a lot of the lessons probably apply to you when you

2:15 feel like, oh, I'm always the one doing it or I'm the only one

2:18 who people can count on. So definitely stay tuned.

2:23 So I really wanted to hear your first Born story and how that

2:28 has shaped you, how that led you down the path you went on.

2:34 OK well I'm Nigerian and in Ebo culture every first born

2:40 daughter is given a name beginning Ada ADA.

2:43 So it's every. Wow.

2:46 Three single first born so when you say your name, people are

2:49 like, oh you're that adapt like it's A and adapt who means first

2:55 born daughter and he say that the first born daughter is like

2:59 the second mom. So before you even take your

3:02 first breath, you're you're really the possibility of being

3:05 the second mom of the hats, which is fresh air.

3:09 And I grew up here in Nigeria until I was 6 and then moved to

3:14 the UK. So my dad was a really

3:16 successful businessman and he started experiencing financial

3:21 difficulties because my mum was a British citizen.

3:25 He suggested that we move to the UK because he knew that we'd be

3:29 guaranteed access to education. So that was what prompted the

3:32 move. But I think we went from one

3:35 extreme to another, which must have been difficult for my mum.

3:38 She passed at 52. I never asked her, but going

3:41 from being surrounded by family, having community and a

3:45 catswoman, having a driver Cook's maid to being alone in a

3:49 new country with three children and pregnant with a four must

3:52 have been a difficult transition.

3:54 And she really struggled because she was a supply teacher.

3:57 So sometimes there was finances and sometimes there was A and

4:01 when there wasn't any finances, she would supplement her

4:03 lifestyle with credit cards and that eventually caught up on us.

4:07 So a lot of my childhood memories were Bailey's knocking

4:12 down the door and taking all the furniture.

4:14 So even though we did an apartment.

4:16 Well. We don't have any anywhere to

4:19 sit Even so it's we do our homework around candle bite

4:23 because there was no electricity and we'd sometimes go 345 days

4:28 without eating any food. Like completely bare cupboards,

4:31 not even seasonings in the cupboard.

4:35 It was really, really tough. And around the age of eight

4:38 years old, I distinctly remember walking with my mum in a

4:43 rainstorm in London to the grocery to do some grocery

4:47 shopping. And she had to stop.

4:50 And it's because her sock had fallen through her shoe and she

4:54 was lifting it up. And something about that was

4:57 kind of straw on the camel's back for me.

4:59 And I was like, it's not fair that my family is suffering this

5:02 much. I have to do something about

5:04 this. And I think that's me when I

5:06 signed the way my childhood, I started thinking how can I help

5:09 my mom? What do I need to do?

5:11 And I would find ways to make money.

5:14 So I grew up, I guess I presented as mature.

5:17 So parents around the neighborhood that we lived

5:20 around would ask me to babysit their kids, even though some

5:24 were older than me or oh what it was.

5:27 So we used to look after them or I braid my sister's hair and

5:31 then their friends parents would see it, ask them who did it, and

5:35 then they'd ask me to do their child's hair and then they me.

5:38 So I've been working for as long as I can remember.

5:40 And as soon as I would get the money, I'd go home, put it on

5:43 the gas, give it to my mom, buy some food.

5:45 So that's kind of where things kind of started and roll

5:51 involved. So my mom ended up meeting

5:54 someone, divorcing my dad, getting remarried and he became

5:57 schizophrenic. So her attention went to him.

6:00 I became a full time mom. So I was cooking clean and

6:04 helping my siblings with their homework as well as being a kid

6:08 and doing my homework. And you know, that was kind of

6:12 the expectation. Well, I felt like it was an

6:15 expectation. And then when I went to

6:18 university, I worked 40 hours a week to send money home and I

6:23 was studying and trying to manage.

6:26 How did you do that? 40 hours.

6:28 Yeah. So I did like attend a hotel.

6:31 I did like 12 hour shifts 3-4 times a week.

6:34 And around that, I thought university and that the spaces I

6:37 had around my classes, I would revise so I didn't have time on

6:41 my days off. And so yeah, it was just

6:43 constantly pushing, pushing, pushing and hustling and

6:46 hustling. And I guess it served me because

6:49 I achieved a lot. I graduated from university, I

6:52 got a job in corporate, in recruitment.

6:55 I was able to quickly work my way into earning 6 figures by

6:58 22. I became the partner of a

7:00 startup by 24. And I've been force always was.

7:05 I need to provide for my family. I need to be an example for my

7:08 siblings. But then it broke me at 25.

7:12 Everything kind of culminated in me falling into depression.

7:16 There's a number of things that happened.

7:17 So I was in Gage to get married. I someone who I've been friends

7:21 with since I was 14. And I had the clarity moment

7:25 that this is probably not what I want for the rest of my life.

7:28 And I cancelled the wedding four months before the day, which

7:31 completely threw everyone into disarray because they'd love to.

7:35 And then I got an ultimatum at the start up that I was working

7:39 at to either keep myself or leave.

7:41 And I was like, this is not a choice I've done.

7:45 And so I went from, I guess one of the things that a lot of

7:50 first born daughters struggle with is this kind of image of

7:53 perfection. You know, it's like I need to

7:55 have all of my dumps in a row because and it gets formed from

8:00 our childhood. We're the first kind of

8:01 prototype of the the girl of the family.

8:05 Parents put all of these sometimes over and sometimes

8:09 kind of imply expectations on us.

8:12 So then we create this thing that's like if we're

8:15 unsuccessful, we're a failure. If we're a failure, we won't be

8:17 loved. So I was ticking off all of

8:19 these boxes in terms of OK, I have a partner, OK, I'm engaged,

8:23 OK, I have a high flying jobs. I'm on the tracks of becoming a

8:25 millionaire. OK, so when all of those things

8:29 kind of key things just disappeared in a moment, my

8:32 brain couldn't handle it and I fell into a depression which I

8:35 never thought I'd be a candidate thought.

8:37 So I struggled to accept it. And then I I was became suicidal

8:43 because I was like, if this is the rest of my life, I don't

8:45 want to live. Then I had a couple of failed

8:47 suicide attempts and that's when things changed for me.

8:51 So I went to any of translation, grew my own business to separate

8:57 figures. And then I had an aha moment

9:00 just before the pandemic happened.

9:01 It was good timing, actually. Three months before the

9:03 pandemic, I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I

9:07 don't want to run this business. No, actually it was two years

9:11 before that I said I don't want to run the business and then

9:14 I'll figure out what my purpose is.

9:16 So I left my company. I was trying to figure out like

9:19 who actually am I? I've been living up to this

9:21 expectation and I don't actually know what I'd like.

9:24 And when people would ask me what's your hobby, I would be

9:28 like, I don't, I don't know. So I, I decided that I was going

9:33 to walk away from my business and go find myself.

9:35 I guess it's like a eat, pray, live.

9:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get up in India for a month.

9:41 And after leaving the meditation retreat, decided to go

9:44 travelling. And then when the pandemic

9:46 happened, I was locked down for three months in London.

9:49 And I was like, I feel like I need something different.

9:52 So a friend of mine was into love.

9:54 And I was like, there's no pandemic here, Come here.

9:57 OK, then I'll come for a month. I'm not bound down by anything.

10:02 And I fell in love with it. And that's when I kind of

10:04 realized that I had a gift for coaching and started working

10:07 with a whole number of people. And then I kind of whittled down

10:10 to women and then women in entrepreneurship and then

10:12 executives and then first born daughters, so.

10:17 Well, that's an incredible story and I relate to certain parts of

10:22 it. I think my upbringing is not

10:26 nearly as tough as yours, but there's besides the just the

10:31 first born daughter kind of taking on the responsibility

10:35 because of expectation, because I think society kind of painted

10:39 this picture like you may have read Little Women.

10:43 There are a couple of other ones that came to mind.

10:46 Bad sisters on Apple TV. The first borns are always the

10:50 one holding it together. And I also think it's because

10:54 when they have to take care of themselves, being the oldest.

10:57 Now this applies to not necessarily just daughters.

11:00 If you're the oldest son too, when your siblings come along,

11:05 you can be damn sure that your mom won't be holding you

11:08 anymore. So you have to be on your own.

11:10 You have to, even if you don't need to help out, you have to be

11:14 self-sufficient yourself. So I think there's part of that.

11:18 But why do you think first born daughters trying to take on this

11:22 responsibility? Why?

11:24 Why is it so common amongst us besides the society?

11:27 Besides I guess maybe it's the second mother, maybe it's the

11:31 mother of nature. I don't know, Like, do you have

11:32 an idea? So what I'm seeing I'm still I'm

11:36 trying to figure out like why is this a generational thing?

11:39 Because it's copy and paste. Whenever I speak to first born

11:42 daughters, it's like, Oh my gosh, I'm seeing my mirror and

11:46 then I'm seeing it with my niece and my friends children and I'm

11:51 like, what's what's happening here?

11:53 And what I've realized through coaching, the first four

11:56 daughters that I work with that have daughters, it's almost like

12:00 they project the same. So there's a few things.

12:04 If you have a mum that's her first born daughter, I think

12:06 that's a double whammy because they're already perfectionist.

12:10 So then you're an extension of them.

12:11 So therefore you need to be perfect in order for you to

12:14 represent them. So there's that, that happens.

12:17 But generally the relationship between the mother and the

12:21 daughter is what I'm seeing so far.

12:24 And I could be wrong. I don't know if this applies in

12:27 for everyone. It's that it's almost like the

12:29 mother is look into that child to fulfil the things that they

12:35 didn't have from their parents. For the girls, the boy child

12:41 doesn't have the same kind of pressure.

12:44 So then it's like, well, you're here now.

12:47 So now this like void or this area of love that I didn't

12:51 receive as a child, you're going to give to me, which then

12:54 parentifies that little girl because now they have to be

12:57 responsible for making mom happy or for holding space for her

13:01 emotions or, you know, being her.

13:04 My mom actually said to me when I got out of depression and

13:07 started getting coaching and I told her I forgave her.

13:10 She said sorry when I didn't need it.

13:12 I was, I was screaming for the story for a long time.

13:15 I wasn't getting it. And then she said, I apologize

13:18 for not nurturing you. I saw you as my husband and I

13:23 was scared that if I nurtured you, you would stop helping me

13:27 and in in direct ways and seeing through the coaching of the

13:32 first born daughters, which is really hard for them to see

13:35 because they say I'm going to do things differently this time.

13:38 And then subconsciously they read the same trauma because

13:43 they also are like, she's not like me.

13:46 Like, you know, why? Why doesn't she like the same

13:48 things? That's like, why do you need her

13:49 to be like you? Why can't she be her and be?

13:53 But also I think that there's something around trying to

13:56 fulfill something that they want to feel through the girl child

14:01 the 1st. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of

14:04 sense because I, I don't have children right now and I have

14:09 been thinking basically all my life that if I had a daughter,

14:13 both her first will be suffering because I I would treat her

14:18 exactly the way that you describe.

14:21 So just about. It a lot of people are like, if

14:25 I have a child, it's going to be different and it's like.

14:28 No, I'm more and more like my mom, but she's she's the

14:31 youngest daughter. So on the daughter side, she's

14:34 the youngest. She has younger brothers.

14:37 She's not a first born daughter. She doesn't have the

14:39 characteristics either. She's just my mom.

14:42 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

14:43 So for the clients that you held, what what's usually the

14:47 reason they came to you? Desperation.

14:50 What? So a lot of one thing I love

14:53 about first of all though, is this how capable they are.

14:55 They are usually the person that everyone needs on.

14:58 So it's in order for them to seek help, they need to get to a

15:03 point where they believe that they can't fix it themselves.

15:05 So a lot of the time they're kind of like, well, I don't need

15:09 any help. It's them over there and they

15:11 need help. Look at all of the people that

15:13 are messed up. So for me it was the same until

15:16 I had experienced depression and had that breakdown.

15:19 I was the one holding everything together.

15:21 I was the one providing for multiple households.

15:24 I was the one that everyone was leaning on.

15:26 So my stress didn't feel like stress because it was normal.

15:30 It had been so present for most of my life that I was numb to

15:35 it. And I needed to down to realize

15:37 like, oh, maybe I need some help too or maybe it's I'm not as

15:42 together as I thought I was. So a lot of the times when first

15:45 one daughters are coming to me is because what they're doing is

15:49 unsustainable. They're getting to a point where

15:51 they're continuing going with the kind of cycle of all the

15:55 things they're trying to carry together, but they're starting

15:57 to feel a resignation almost like they say whenever they

16:03 communicate, they say I'm tired, but it's, it's a beyond tired.

16:07 It's not, I need to sleep and I'll be fine.

16:09 It's like I'm just exhausted with life or stuff.

16:12 I, I don't know, like something's got to give.

16:15 So that's usually the case in less acute situations and

16:20 circumstances that people come to me, they're probably because

16:23 they're so driven by achievement, which is why I

16:25 focus on and entrepreneurs and executives, if they are

16:30 plateauing for a little while, it's the most excruciating thing

16:34 for them. So they're like have tried

16:36 everything and for some reason I can't breakthrough.

16:39 I had a client, Shirley, she came to me and she was like, I'm

16:42 good, I'm married, I got two kids.

16:44 It's just this business, it's, it can only get to 160 K.

16:47 And when she started working with me, we started looking at

16:50 her childhood. I was like, what's this got to

16:52 do with my business and my everything?

16:54 And within eight months, she grew her business at 800,000.

16:58 So it's it's usually I'm know I have so much that I can live

17:02 into and sell some potential, but can't see I'm trying lots of

17:05 different things, doing more and it's not needed into that

17:08 breakthrough or I'm at a breaking point where this isn't

17:12 sustainable. I have health issues, my mental

17:14 health is suffering. I need some help.

17:18 I'd like to dive into the first scenario.

17:21 The there's just something that they can't breakthrough.

17:25 What's the mental block like? What's holding them back from

17:27 the breakthrough? So just humans in general, when

17:33 we're operating on a day-to-day basis, our mind, a lot of us

17:39 think that we're in control of ourselves and we're in control

17:42 about decision making. It's not the case.

17:45 Only 5% of our mind is conscious and 95% is subconscious.

17:49 So we have these ingrained behavioral patterns of beliefs

17:54 that are at play 24/7 every single time.

17:58 Um, so which is what I was explaining in terms of I was

18:00 numb to have stressed. I was until it was hard to

18:04 ignore. So a lot of them are, they've

18:08 learned to take on a lot. So when they're trying to

18:11 breakthrough something, they'll they'll do, I'll do something

18:15 different, but they're doing something different with the

18:17 same conditioning. Or it's like, oh, maybe I just

18:21 need to work harder or do more, but then doing more, it's just

18:24 giving them more of the same results.

18:27 So it's, it's just the blind spot in terms of how have the

18:31 hurtful things in my past affected how I relate to myself,

18:35 which is affecting my decision making at this moment and at the

18:38 next moment and at the next moment.

18:40 So we just kind of start to lift the lids of some of the blind

18:44 spots. So for example, I had a call

18:47 yesterday with one of my clients and she has an issue with a

18:51 partner and she was like, he's always taking control and he's

18:55 like trying to control me and he's not letting me do things

18:58 because they had a Thanksgiving party.

19:01 And then when I was questioning her, I said, how is he

19:05 controlling you? And she was like, well, he just

19:08 wants to be seen as the one who has it all together when I'm

19:10 slaving in the background, this typical first one daughter

19:13 thing. And I said, how does that look?

19:17 She was like, well, he's giving away food and he didn't ask me

19:20 if he should give it away. And he's like giving away our

19:22 Corkscrew when it's the only one we had.

19:25 And I said, he sounds like he's a really generous person.

19:28 And I said, So what? What is the trigger?

19:29 She was like, well, he he focuses on everyone else, but he

19:33 doesn't ask me before he does things.

19:35 I said, is he asking everyone else?

19:37 And she said no, you know, and I, I was like, how's he supposed

19:42 to know that you need to be asked if you notice?

19:44 She's like, Oh my gosh, I didn't realise.

19:46 I'm like, he just seems like he's just generous and he thinks

19:49 he's helping you, but you're not telling him what helps looks

19:53 like for you. So it's just those blind spots.

19:56 Well seeing as I had to raise myself I was never confide like

20:00 checked in on or I wasn't asked for my opinion or.

20:04 My feelings either. So it's like if you've had to

20:07 raise yourself and if you've had to hold space for other people

20:11 and show up for other people, you haven't worked the muscle of

20:14 people showing up for you. So it's not that skill to say,

20:18 Hey, this is what I need. Hey, this is how I feel.

20:21 So you've emotions that are not being expressed and then

20:25 expecting people to show up how you show up and then when they

20:28 don't show up in that way, you're triggered.

20:30 You know, that's like, so it's, it's mind spots like that that

20:34 are relate to the past that kind of show up in work, in intimate

20:38 relationships with parenting. So it's just uncovering those

20:42 kind of little nuances that just kind of makes you think, Oh

20:47 yeah, you're right. He isn't just doing this to me.

20:49 He this is just how he is. So I need to communicate what I

20:53 need. Yeah, I like half jokingly.

20:57 I would complain to my parents that they they have never really

21:01 checked in on me either. And I make fun of them and say,

21:04 yeah, like they're your favorite daughters.

21:06 And because I guess they do check in on me a little less

21:11 often. But I think it's because I'm

21:12 fine. They know I'll be fine.

21:15 It's not like I'm longing for that check in either.

21:18 But that's why I said half jokingly, I give him a hard

21:21 time. You know, are you not needing

21:25 it? You know, it's like, maybe you

21:27 don't need it as much as your siblings.

21:28 I don't need it to keep going, but I appreciate it.

21:32 Like now they know and I will like outrightly say what about

21:36 me? Like, don't you care?

21:38 Right. And I think it's like you're

21:39 human and humans like our basic fundamental need is for love and

21:45 be love. We want to feel part of tribe.

21:48 So when we're giving and it's not reciprocal, it hurts because

21:52 then it's like because you're comparing, right?

21:54 And you asked like, what are the blind spots?

21:56 I kind of call it with you, right?

21:59 One of the ways that you cope is like, oh, I don't need it.

22:02 Like it's not I'm a pilot that you.

22:06 It's interesting because even in my own journey, I had to see how

22:10 I learnt to. I'm one of seven and I observed

22:13 my mum nurturing my siblings and not nurturing me.

22:17 That's a really hard thing for a child to deal with.

22:19 So I had to find a way to cope and be OK with them.

22:23 And then it was like, oh, I'm fine.

22:25 Like I don't eat, but then that shuts me down emotionally.

22:28 And then I'll get comments from people growing up like you're

22:32 robotic or you're. Yeah, not very affectionate.

22:36 Yeah, and I'm like, I didn't have a model to me.

22:39 Firstly, I wasn't nurtured and then secondly, I learned how to

22:43 survive without receiving that nurture, shutting myself off to

22:47 my emotions. But in my core, it's not the

22:49 truth, you know? And what I know as one daughters

22:52 that a lot of people don't know is that we are extremely

22:56 sensitive. Extremely.

22:57 We can sense and feel what everyone else needs in the room

23:01 because we're so hyper aware to showing up at other people's

23:06 needs. Yeah, like we I thought it was

23:09 just a cancer thing, being hyper aware and super sensitive of how

23:16 everyone else is doing. And I'm a SO, I'm a cancer and a

23:19 first born daughter. Yeah, I'm an Aries on the first

23:23 one. I'm a fire sign.

23:24 But yet no matter which first one I speak to, same thing.

23:29 You know, we are feeling so much but we've learnt to like eat

23:34 like ducks. On the surface we're just

23:36 sliding along. Underneath we're doing.

23:38 This yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like we.

23:40 Create all of these copper mechanisms that don't

23:43 necessarily serve us in the long run because we don't train

23:47 people how to show up for us. I think one of the deepest

23:51 desires I identified and 1st sponsors, we want to be taken

23:55 care of. You know, we want to just like

23:58 surrender for a while. We don't know how to receive it.

24:03 So it feels really vulnerable. We don't know how to ask for it.

24:06 We're scared of being rejected and and made to feel that we're

24:09 unimportant. So there's so much that comes

24:12 from allowing that in that we just learn how to be hyper

24:16 independent and be OK, be hyper independent, but it's not what

24:19 we truly want at once. We're break that down, the

24:23 things start coming a lot easier and we see more success.

24:26 We feel like life is more sustainable.

24:29 We are able to create a ecosystem of support.

24:32 So I created a framework called the Strategic Vulnerability

24:36 Framework, because what first model is not really good at is

24:40 vulnerability. And it's the antidote to every

24:44 single problem that they have is regardless of what she was, you

24:49 know, So yeah, it's interesting. Wow, that's yeah, it is very

24:53 interesting. And I mean, it's funny that you

24:56 caught me doing the same thing that a lot of your clients are

25:00 doing. So back to your moment of when

25:03 you realize I can't do this anymore.

25:05 So you said you had a breakdown and that was that the reason why

25:10 you cancelled the wedding? Like, do you remember what were

25:13 the pieces that fell apart? The the first point was the

25:20 breakdown of the relationship because in my mind I was going

25:24 to have one partner and that would be my partner for the rest

25:27 of my life. And then I would have kids and

25:29 the wife and kids friends and the multimedia isn't all of the

25:32 things. So being with him, we were

25:35 friends from the age of 14. We started dating at 18.

25:39 We were engaged by 19 and then 20.

25:42 By 20, if I had saved enough money to pay for my own wedding

25:46 because my dad was in my life at the time he is now.

25:50 And just the realization everyone kind of admired our

25:54 relationship. We didn't really argue.

25:56 He still like meant a lot to me. But I had repeated the patterns

26:00 I was running at the family where I was like the emotional

26:04 and financial provider. So it was making him feel like

26:07 he didn't have a place. So I felt that I kind of didn't

26:11 have room because I didn't know how to receive.

26:13 So I realized, oh wow, I would need to change in order for him

26:17 to be happy. And I don't think that's fair on

26:20 either of us. And I didn't have the tools or

26:22 now knew it was possible to change.

26:24 So I ended up and like telling everyone four months before the

26:28 day that we've decided we're not going to go ahead with it.

26:31 And that in itself, my mum was angry with me.

26:34 My my friends were like, didn't beat you.

26:36 Did he cheat on you? And I'm like, no.

26:38 And they're like, what are you doing?

26:40 So I had to deal with the emotional kind of backlash from

26:43 that. And then just three months after

26:45 I get given this ultimatum at my job and I'm like, you're not

26:50 going to have control, but tell me to keep my my opinions and

26:54 myself. I joined the company on the

26:56 condition, but I will learn how to run a business because I was

27:00 ready to start my own business. So I think get in the ultimatum

27:04 at the business, it was just kind of like, well, I was going

27:07 to start my own business anyway. I guess this is forcing me to.

27:12 So I was propelled without it being I didn't feel like it was

27:15 my choice. It was clearly my choice because

27:17 I could have kept my opinions of myself and stayed.

27:19 But I left and I think all of those circumstances happened at

27:22 the same time where I'm like, I was supposed to get married.

27:26 Now I'm single, I was in this high flying job but as a partner

27:30 and now I'm unemployed and all. It just was too much for me to

27:35 fathom at the same time, and that's what kind of led to the

27:38 breakdown. So before you became who you are

27:43 today, like I'm sure you had to go through recovery, healing,

27:47 and you had to let go of certain things.

27:50 Like, you have to just actively choose to not be the one

27:54 carrying all that responsibility anymore.

27:57 What were some of the things that went through your mind?

28:00 Like, were you afraid to do these?

28:03 Do you feel I'm going to be so irresponsible if I decided not

28:08 to keep my role anymore? All of the above, but I didn't

28:13 go cold Turkey. There's still, I feel like

28:18 there's there's levels to change.

28:20 So even now I'm having to discover little things.

28:25 But the key turning point for me is being was being able to see

28:29 how I was contributing to the things that were hurting me

28:32 rather than focusing laymen, everything and everyone outside

28:36 of me. So little things like I did have

28:39 to realize, well, no one actually told me to play this

28:43 role. I felt it was and I took it on

28:47 and then I've trained them to expect it for me.

28:49 So if I want to be able to consider, be considered, I have

28:53 to consider myself and I need to stop saying no when I don't have

28:56 the resources or the capacity all the time.

28:59 So then like the first no was so hard, like I'm shaking to think

29:04 that I'm like selfish and I don't love them and all of the

29:08 things. And they did react because it

29:10 was like, who do you think you are saying no?

29:13 What do you mean you're not going to help me?

29:14 And I had to kind of stick to it.

29:16 But it's not that I don't help. I help when I have the capacity

29:20 to help. And after a period of time, they

29:23 started to understand that it's like, oh, OK, well, she says yes

29:26 when she can. So when she says no, she must

29:28 not really be able to, you know, So but it was little micro

29:32 changes like that. And then when I moved to Mexico,

29:36 because that started maybe three years before I moved to Mexico.

29:39 And then when I moved to Mexico, there was this uproar.

29:43 And I was thinking, what's the problem?

29:46 And they were like, you can't go, You're not accessible.

29:49 I'm like, you're married with children.

29:51 What do you mean? You have your own life?

29:53 How? Why can't I?

29:54 Yeah, but then that showed me again, oh, there's still a oh,

30:00 as long as the doctor's closed, then if anything goes wrong,

30:02 we'll we'll rely on her. I was like, interesting.

30:06 So this is good in Mexico. Maybe I was also.

30:11 There's always levels of that disconnection.

30:14 I had a conversation with my youngest sister last week and I

30:19 shared something and she was like, I'm, I'm finally starting

30:23 to understand you. And what we shared is that she

30:26 said, I would always think that you were really harsh and direct

30:31 and that you didn't really understand people.

30:34 But what I'm really, what I saw was that you understand

30:38 everyone. You understand them more than

30:40 anyone in the room. And I was like, yeah, it's not

30:43 that I was direct. It's just I was shutting myself

30:45 off. So how would I be able to know

30:47 how to not shut them off? You know, it's like, that's how

30:50 I would survive it. And she was like, I'm getting to

30:52 understand you. And I'm like, thank you for

30:54 seeing me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:57 For I'm going to be 14 next year.

30:59 But we've it's there's been so many conversations for me trying

31:01 to explain it. And she finally heard and she

31:04 was like, I get it, you know? So yeah, there's, there's layers

31:09 of I'm rewiring and reprogramming and those multiple

31:13 things that I had to change along the way.

31:15 And I still do the work. Even though I'm supporting

31:18 eldest daughters, it doesn't me or first one daughters my my

31:21 work and growth work is still very, very present.

31:25 Wow that's beautiful. It must mean a lot to you when

31:28 she's I'm finally starting to see you because us first born

31:31 daughters, no one really asks us or try to understand us.

31:36 No, we're close. So she's tried, but I think that

31:38 she's just been so caught up in her triggers with me because I

31:43 was like her mum. So she's like, you did this and

31:46 you did that, but it's hard for her to like put that to the

31:49 side. But I've been apologizing with

31:51 me doing the work. I've been taking responsibility

31:54 of the impact of how I showed up.

31:56 And with that, she's put in her guards now.

31:58 So she now has the capacity to be able to, to hear me too,

32:01 which is it is like it's the first time that I had that was

32:06 like 2 years ago when I was on a call with two of my sisters and

32:09 they were like, we really just want to say thank you to you for

32:13 everything you did because we wouldn't be the women we are now

32:15 if you didn't I. Was like, that's so nice.

32:18 Yeah, it was, yeah. Yeah, and I have two sisters and

32:23 in both of their speeches at my wedding, like the me helping

32:29 them was the recurring theme. Yeah.

32:32 Yeah, like I say, it's really just both natural and we just

32:37 take on this role because there's no one else.

32:40 And we're kind of like the mother figure, Like the mother

32:43 figure. And for you, you have an extra

32:45 layer of your name for anyone who understands the culture.

32:49 Yeah, it is. It's it's unfortunate.

32:52 I think we should love future generations of first of all just

32:56 actually enjoy being children. Yeah, yeah.

33:00 So the what you were saying like learning how to be vulnerable,

33:05 learning when you need help yourself, knowing how to say no.

33:09 That's common for anyone who's not not a first born daughter as

33:14 well. So for anyone who is in similar

33:17 situations, feeling like they're the one holding it together,

33:21 feeling like they're always the one doing it, there's no one

33:24 else they can depend on, what can they start asking themselves

33:28 or start noticing to help them out of this cycle?

33:32 Well, first thing is that they need to unknown themselves to

33:35 their feelings. If they have been very

33:37 externally focused, they probably don't know what they're

33:40 feeling. And they engage in a lot of

33:43 stories like I'm, I'm fine, I'm OK, I don't need it.

33:47 Or it's like, no, let's be real in, in moments, like really try

33:52 to desensitize yourself to your triggers.

33:55 What is triggering you? Because if a, if a, if the

33:58 button didn't exist within you, it can't be pressed.

34:01 So the opportunity is to look at that button and then address why

34:05 it's there so that you can remove it, which will then allow

34:08 you to be emotionally free to, to show up.

34:12 And a lot of the times the trigger is related to a need

34:16 that you had in your childhood that wasn't fulfilled.

34:19 And then you get to repair it yourself in the present moment

34:22 to start giving you yourself the love, the care, the

34:27 acknowledgement, the validation, all of the things that you

34:30 didn't get so that you can not need it to not be coming from a

34:34 deficit. So that when people don't show

34:36 it to you, it doesn't affect you in the same way, you know, And

34:39 we do that in a whole number of ways by celebrating our wins, by

34:45 no learning how to say no, by feeling like, oh, my body needs

34:49 rest. That even though my mind is

34:51 saying I have to do this, this and this, and I have this never

34:54 ending To Do List, it never ends.

34:56 So just take the time to go and rest because then you can show

35:00 up more powerfully to do that, To Do List a lot quicker and

35:04 with more enthusiasm. And so I would definitely say

35:08 learn how to listen to yourself, learn how to communicate how

35:12 you're feeling instead of dismissing it.

35:14 Learn how to give yourself what you need so that you can start

35:18 re parenting yourself into wholeness which will allow you

35:21 to have a lighter view of life that your life experiences.

35:25 It will help you show up differently in your

35:26 relationships also. Thank you.

35:29 Those are such wise words like and it's just something that

35:33 kind of just like click, wake up.

35:37 Easier said, but if you. Yeah, it happens.

35:42 For mothers who have first born daughters, what should they look

35:47 at to see if they are creating that same trap?

35:51 Yeah. So if your child, this usually

35:53 starts happening in teenagers, if your child starts telling you

35:57 you treat me differently or you love your my siblings more than

36:01 me, that's a really clear sign that they feel that there is a

36:06 difference in the way that they're being treated.

36:08 And I would try to a lot of parents go into kind of a

36:15 dictator role where it's like, I'm the adult.

36:18 I know best. I'm going to tell you, you're

36:19 going to do what you want and it's for your best interest.

36:22 But if we spend a little bit more time to kind of probe, it's

36:26 almost like, oh, you love them more instead of being like, no,

36:28 I don't, I love you all the same.

36:29 Just actually inquire what is it that makes you feel that way?

36:33 OK, and and, and what is it that it would make you feel loved?

36:37 And, and that in itself is healing because they're being

36:41 listened to and they're being, you know, there's space being

36:44 held for them and truly receive it instead of instead of

36:48 receiving it as an attack. Just be, be curious with it to

36:52 see like, OK, well, how can I learn from this?

36:56 Or maybe there's something I'm not seeing that I'm doing.

36:59 And if her feelings or his feelings are valid, what can I

37:03 take on on board to be mindful of because I do love my kids

37:07 equally? How can I show up in alignment

37:09 to their love, love language or what they need, you know?

37:12 And I think that, and it's so just, I've seen in situations

37:15 where just listening to the child has made a huge difference

37:20 in terms of how they feel because they they feel seen,

37:23 they feel considered so. If they're typical first born

37:28 sons or daughters, they may not say it though.

37:30 Would you say just observe them or look at your own actions and

37:36 then observe your first born's action and then see if there's

37:39 any place that you're neglecting because you, I think they're

37:43 fine. Yeah, it's hard to tell because

37:46 I think we're really masters of acting like everything is OK.

37:49 So it's it's like, what would you be looking for?

37:52 Because on the surface they look fine.

37:55 But I think first one daughters, they do, they have, they grow

37:59 resentment. So the resentment usually comes

38:01 out at some point. That's the point to like look at

38:04 it. But if you're looking for

38:06 actions that you don't see, then it's going to be hard.

38:09 And also the other thing, if you suspect something's wrong, but

38:13 they're not talking, that's a different thing.

38:15 So if they're given, I used to give the silent treatment, I was

38:18 very good at giving the silent treatment.

38:19 It could last for a week. But if they're doing something

38:22 like giving you the silent treatment, then you can share

38:26 like, you know, you know, when I was a kid, I used to give the

38:28 silent treatment too. And it was when this happened

38:31 and my mom said this and it hurt me.

38:33 That also opens the door because they're like, oh really?

38:35 You know, So they try to find corresponding examples of

38:41 relatedness where you can kind of share from your experience if

38:45 they're not opening up and see if that opens something up for

38:49 them. That's some great, great advice

38:52 so that we can stop this from repeating in the generations to

38:57 come. No more, no more.

38:59 All right, so let's play a rabbit fire round of quick

39:03 questions. Quick answer, gut reaction.

39:05 Sure, if you were one of your younger siblings, what would be

39:09 the biggest difference in your life?

39:12 Good question. I would be a lot more carefree.

39:17 I feel like I would be a lot more playful.

39:20 So usually when I meet people, I'm like fully myself.

39:24 My brain has created this amount of time or amount of

39:28 interaction. I don't know what the parameter

39:30 is, but there's a point where I'm comfortable to be myself.

39:33 And I, if I were myself and I'd take bigger risks, I would be

39:38 more myself like with everyone and just kind of show up

39:41 unapologetically me and constantly overthinking and

39:46 what's appropriate and are these people going to think I'm too

39:49 much and what's going on for them?

39:50 And you know, so that would be the biggest shift.

39:53 Yeah, unapologetic. I can never become that because

39:57 I see people don't. Never.

40:00 Like, as in, if I need to be unapologetic, I need to really,

40:04 really put a lot of effort, yeah.

40:08 But it's. Possible.

40:08 Never say never. Yeah, it's a big, it's a huge

40:12 hill to walk out. The first one.

40:15 You're a perfectionist, but yeah.

40:18 OK, next one. What's the least first born

40:21 thing you've done? Probably moving to Mexico the

40:24 way that I did. I kind of just made the

40:26 decision. I, I got here thinking I was

40:29 going to be here for a month and I didn't go back home for 17

40:33 months. I packed up my house from here.

40:36 Like I found a friend and was like, go over, put it in the I'd

40:40 say I'm going to rent it out. And that's kind of how I

40:42 transitioned. So that was very spontaneous,

40:45 but it was a decision that impacted everyone and I didn't

40:50 run back. Usually everyone would like

40:52 react and I'd be like, OK, maybe I'm being irrational.

40:55 I'll come back and then I'll transition it.

40:57 And I was just like, no, I'm not going back.

41:00 Well that's you would be more free if you were one of your

41:04 younger siblings. Well.

41:06 Good for you, good for you. What is your go to way to not be

41:11 the responsible one for a day? What is my go to way to not be

41:16 the responsible? I feel like the last five years

41:19 of living in Salome has been and not being the responsible one.

41:24 I took 2 1/2 years of not working at all.

41:27 I was, well, I worked 4 to 7 hours a week because I was like,

41:32 what do I want to do? Like I don't want to work.

41:34 I've been working since I can remember.

41:36 It's like, so then don't work. It's like, oh, OK, I won't work.

41:40 So that's that's living in tuloma.

41:44 Tuloma is very go with the flow. It's a spiritual unity.

41:49 So it's kind of like it's just flow.

41:53 So the London first one daughter was like, yeah, what's going on?

41:58 Like things the. Environment just keep you in

42:01 that bubble. Yeah, no, this, this has really

42:04 allowed me to surrender into, you know, whatever it is.

42:08 Like when I first came, I was annoyed that people were leaving

42:11 me waiting two hours when I had meetings with them.

42:13 Now I go to a meeting with my laptop so I can focus on other

42:17 things. And when they show up, it's not

42:18 a problem, you know, So I become a lot more easy going.

42:22 There's still a waste though. But I think that living in

42:26 Salome is probably, I only know, I know a handful of first born

42:29 daughters in Salome, but it's not the majority.

42:31 And I I think that's by design. All right.

42:35 And last one, if first born daughter energy is a drink, what

42:41 would it be? Red Bull.

42:43 Red Bull. Yeah, or if it's a if it's a

42:48 item, it's like the Energizer Bunny.

42:50 It's like, I don't know, wait one daughters get the energy to

42:55 they could be carrying a lot, they could be drained, they

42:58 could be sick, but they have this program that allows them to

43:03 just drive through and drive through.

43:06 So I say, yeah, Red Bull, They they have a lot of energy and it

43:10 gives them wings, so. Give some wings.

43:13 Yes, we can fly. Well, thank you very much, Zaku,

43:17 for having this conversation with me.

43:19 I am. I learned something about

43:22 myself, something I you made me see myself differently and like,

43:28 you know, you uncovered some flying spot for me too.

43:31 And then I think it's useful for anyone who's in the position of

43:35 just feeling like you're holding it together because I know it's

43:38 not just for support daughters, but we're just a little bit more

43:41 prone to it. So and anyone, if you have an

43:44 elder sister who is the first born daughter, go give them a

43:49 hug, say thank you, send them a message, see how they're doing,

43:52 check in. Yes, the silent ones are also

43:55 needing probably the most most love, so go love on them.

43:59 Yeah. All right.

44:00 Well, thank you. Thanks for having me and that

44:03 was fun. It's what I've been finding when

44:04 I get interviewed by first born daughters.

44:07 The conversations, great. Thanks for listening to this

44:14 episode of Mind One. If you enjoyed the conversation,

44:17 don't forget to follow and share it with anyone who needs to hear

44:20 it. And let's keep the conversation

44:22 going. Connect with me on LinkedIn or

44:24 leave me a comment. Until next time, stay curious,

44:28 keep exploring, and let's continue to burn our minds and

44:31 discover what's possible.