The Emotional Tax of Being Capable - Adaku Mbagwu

0:00 Well, I'm Nigerian and in evil culture, every first born daughter is given a name beginning Ada ADA. So when you say your name, people are like, oh, you're the adat adat who means first born daughter. It's not fair that my family is suffering this much. I have to do something about this. And I think that's when I signed the way my childhood. My mom ended up meeting someone divorcing my dad would getting remarried and he became schizophrenic. So her attention went to him. I became, I am a full time mom, so I was cooking clean and helping my siblings with their homework as well as being a kid and doing my homework.

0:38 And you know, that was kind of the expectation. Well, I felt like it was an expectation. Some of us are raised to lead, and some of us are simply wired that way. But what happens when that sense of responsibility becomes your default setting? When being strong turns into being the one who holds it all together? So my guest today, Adaku Mbagu, is someone she calls the first Daughter Disruptor. She's a founder of a company heel, and she helps high achieving women unlearn the need to carry everyone's weight and redefine what it means to lead with ease, grace and power.

1:22 Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and I'll be diving into the minds of incredible people, each an expert in their very own way. Together, we'll uncover insights and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to navigate your own unique journey in life. Ready to get curious and discover what's possible? Let's blend. Hi Adaku, welcome to MIND BLEND. Hi, Karen, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. I'm really, really excited to talk to you because as I mentioned, you're the first starter disruptor.

2:01 So kind of implies that you're a first daughter. I'm a first daughter too. So we're going to talk a lot about that today. And but listeners, even if you're not a first born daughter, a lot of the lessons probably apply to you when you feel like, oh, I'm always the one doing it or I'm the only one who people can count on. So definitely stay tuned. So I really wanted to hear your first Born story and how that has shaped you, how that led you down the path you went on. OK well I'm Nigerian and in Ebo culture every first born daughter is given a name beginning Ada ADA.

2:43 So it's every. Wow. Three single first born so when you say your name, people are like, oh you're that adapt like it's A and adapt who means first born daughter and he say that the first born daughter is like the second mom. So before you even take your first breath, you're you're really the possibility of being the second mom of the hats, which is fresh air. And I grew up here in Nigeria until I was 6 and then moved to the UK. So my dad was a really successful businessman and he started experiencing financial difficulties because my mum was a British citizen.

3:25 He suggested that we move to the UK because he knew that we'd be guaranteed access to education. So that was what prompted the move. But I think we went from one extreme to another, which must have been difficult for my mum. She passed at 52. I never asked her, but going from being surrounded by family, having community and a catswoman, having a driver Cook's maid to being alone in a new country with three children and pregnant with a four must have been a difficult transition. And she really struggled because she was a supply teacher.

3:57 So sometimes there was finances and sometimes there was A and when there wasn't any finances, she would supplement her lifestyle with credit cards and that eventually caught up on us. So a lot of my childhood memories were Bailey's knocking down the door and taking all the furniture. So even though we did an apartment. Well. We don't have any anywhere to sit Even so it's we do our homework around candle bite because there was no electricity and we'd sometimes go 345 days without eating any food.

4:29 Like completely bare cupboards, not even seasonings in the cupboard. It was really, really tough. And around the age of eight years old, I distinctly remember walking with my mum in a rainstorm in London to the grocery to do some grocery shopping. And she had to stop. And it's because her sock had fallen through her shoe and she was lifting it up. And something about that was kind of straw on the camel's back for me. And I was like, it's not fair that my family is suffering this much. I have to do something about this.

5:04 And I think that's me when I signed the way my childhood, I started thinking how can I help my mom? What do I need to do? And I would find ways to make money. So I grew up, I guess I presented as mature. So parents around the neighborhood that we lived around would ask me to babysit their kids, even though some were older than me or oh what it was. So we used to look after them or I braid my sister's hair and then their friends parents would see it, ask them who did it, and then they'd ask me to do their child's hair and then they me.

5:38 So I've been working for as long as I can remember. And as soon as I would get the money, I'd go home, put it on the gas, give it to my mom, buy some food. So that's kind of where things kind of started and roll involved. So my mom ended up meeting someone, divorcing my dad, getting remarried and he became schizophrenic. So her attention went to him. I became a full time mom. So I was cooking clean and helping my siblings with their homework as well as being a kid and doing my homework. And you know, that was kind of the expectation.

6:13 Well, I felt like it was an expectation. And then when I went to university, I worked 40 hours a week to send money home and I was studying and trying to manage. How did you do that? 40 hours. Yeah. So I did like attend a hotel. I did like 12 hour shifts 3-4 times a week. And around that, I thought university and that the spaces I had around my classes, I would revise so I didn't have time on my days off. And so yeah, it was just constantly pushing, pushing, pushing and hustling and hustling. And I guess it served me because I achieved a lot.

6:50 I graduated from university, I got a job in corporate, in recruitment. I was able to quickly work my way into earning 6 figures by 22. I became the partner of a startup by 24. And I've been force always was. I need to provide for my family. I need to be an example for my siblings. But then it broke me at 25. Everything kind of culminated in me falling into depression. There's a number of things that happened. So I was in Gage to get married. I someone who I've been friends with since I was 14. And I had the clarity moment that this is probably not what I want for the rest of my life.

7:28 And I cancelled the wedding four months before the day, which completely threw everyone into disarray because they'd love to. And then I got an ultimatum at the start up that I was working at to either keep myself or leave. And I was like, this is not a choice I've done. And so I went from, I guess one of the things that a lot of first born daughters struggle with is this kind of image of perfection. You know, it's like I need to have all of my dumps in a row because and it gets formed from our childhood.

8:00 We're the first kind of prototype of the the girl of the family. Parents put all of these sometimes over and sometimes kind of imply expectations on us. So then we create this thing that's like if we're unsuccessful, we're a failure. If we're a failure, we won't be loved. So I was ticking off all of these boxes in terms of OK, I have a partner, OK, I'm engaged, OK, I have a high flying jobs. I'm on the tracks of becoming a millionaire. OK, so when all of those things kind of key things just disappeared in a moment, my brain couldn't handle it and I fell into a depression which I never thought I'd be a candidate thought.

8:37 So I struggled to accept it. And then I I was became suicidal because I was like, if this is the rest of my life, I don't want to live. Then I had a couple of failed suicide attempts and that's when things changed for me. So I went to any of translation, grew my own business to separate figures. And then I had an aha moment just before the pandemic happened. It was good timing, actually. Three months before the pandemic, I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I don't want to run this business.

9:09 No, actually it was two years before that I said I don't want to run the business and then I'll figure out what my purpose is. So I left my company. I was trying to figure out like who actually am I? I've been living up to this expectation and I don't actually know what I'd like. And when people would ask me what's your hobby, I would be like, I don't, I don't know. So I, I decided that I was going to walk away from my business and go find myself. I guess it's like a eat, pray, live. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:38 Get up in India for a month. And after leaving the meditation retreat, decided to go travelling. And then when the pandemic happened, I was locked down for three months in London. And I was like, I feel like I need something different. So a friend of mine was into love. And I was like, there's no pandemic here, Come here. OK, then I'll come for a month. I'm not bound down by anything. And I fell in love with it. And that's when I kind of realized that I had a gift for coaching and started working with a whole number of people.

10:08 And then I kind of whittled down to women and then women in entrepreneurship and then executives and then first born daughters, so.

10:17 Well, that's an incredible story and I relate to certain parts of it. I think my upbringing is not nearly as tough as yours, but there's besides the just the first born daughter kind of taking on the responsibility because of expectation, because I think society kind of painted this picture like you may have read Little Women. There are a couple of other ones that came to mind. Bad sisters on Apple TV. The first borns are always the one holding it together. And I also think it's because when they have to take care of themselves, being the oldest.

10:57 Now this applies to not necessarily just daughters. If you're the oldest son too, when your siblings come along, you can be damn sure that your mom won't be holding you anymore. So you have to be on your own. You have to, even if you don't need to help out, you have to be self-sufficient yourself. So I think there's part of that. But why do you think first born daughters trying to take on this responsibility? Why? Why is it so common amongst us besides the society? Besides I guess maybe it's the second mother, maybe it's the mother of nature.

11:31 I don't know, Like, do you have an idea? So what I'm seeing I'm still I'm trying to figure out like why is this a generational thing? Because it's copy and paste. Whenever I speak to first born daughters, it's like, Oh my gosh, I'm seeing my mirror and then I'm seeing it with my niece and my friends children and I'm like, what's what's happening here? And what I've realized through coaching, the first four daughters that I work with that have daughters, it's almost like they project the same. So there's a few things.

12:04 If you have a mum that's her first born daughter, I think that's a double whammy because they're already perfectionist. So then you're an extension of them. So therefore you need to be perfect in order for you to represent them. So there's that, that happens. But generally the relationship between the mother and the daughter is what I'm seeing so far. And I could be wrong. I don't know if this applies in for everyone. It's that it's almost like the mother is look into that child to fulfil the things that they didn't have from their parents.

12:38 For the girls, the boy child doesn't have the same kind of pressure. So then it's like, well, you're here now. So now this like void or this area of love that I didn't receive as a child, you're going to give to me, which then parentifies that little girl because now they have to be responsible for making mom happy or for holding space for her emotions or, you know, being her. My mom actually said to me when I got out of depression and started getting coaching and I told her I forgave her. She said sorry when I didn't need it.

13:12 I was, I was screaming for the story for a long time. I wasn't getting it. And then she said, I apologize for not nurturing you. I saw you as my husband and I was scared that if I nurtured you, you would stop helping me and in in direct ways and seeing through the coaching of the first born daughters, which is really hard for them to see because they say I'm going to do things differently this time. And then subconsciously they read the same trauma because they also are like, she's not like me. Like, you know, why?

13:47 Why doesn't she like the same things? That's like, why do you need her to be like you? Why can't she be her and be? But also I think that there's something around trying to fulfill something that they want to feel through the girl child the 1st. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense because I, I don't have children right now and I have been thinking basically all my life that if I had a daughter, both her first will be suffering because I I would treat her exactly the way that you describe. So just about.

14:22 It a lot of people are like, if I have a child, it's going to be different and it's like. No, I'm more and more like my mom, but she's she's the youngest daughter. So on the daughter side, she's the youngest. She has younger brothers. She's not a first born daughter. She doesn't have the characteristics either. She's just my mom. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for the clients that you held, what what's usually the reason they came to you? Desperation. What? So a lot of one thing I love about first of all though, is this how capable they are.

14:55 They are usually the person that everyone needs on. So it's in order for them to seek help, they need to get to a point where they believe that they can't fix it themselves. So a lot of the time they're kind of like, well, I don't need any help. It's them over there and they need help. Look at all of the people that are messed up. So for me it was the same until I had experienced depression and had that breakdown. I was the one holding everything together. I was the one providing for multiple households.

15:24 I was the one that everyone was leaning on. So my stress didn't feel like stress because it was normal. It had been so present for most of my life that I was numb to it. And I needed to down to realize like, oh, maybe I need some help too or maybe it's I'm not as together as I thought I was. So a lot of the times when first one daughters are coming to me is because what they're doing is unsustainable. They're getting to a point where they're continuing going with the kind of cycle of all the things they're trying to carry together, but they're starting to feel a resignation almost like they say whenever they communicate, they say I'm tired, but it's, it's a beyond tired.

16:07 It's not, I need to sleep and I'll be fine. It's like I'm just exhausted with life or stuff. I, I don't know, like something's got to give. So that's usually the case in less acute situations and circumstances that people come to me, they're probably because they're so driven by achievement, which is why I focus on and entrepreneurs and executives, if they are plateauing for a little while, it's the most excruciating thing for them. So they're like have tried everything and for some reason I can't breakthrough.

16:39 I had a client, Shirley, she came to me and she was like, I'm good, I'm married, I got two kids. It's just this business, it's, it can only get to 160 K. And when she started working with me, we started looking at her childhood. I was like, what's this got to do with my business and my everything? And within eight months, she grew her business at 800,000. So it's it's usually I'm know I have so much that I can live into and sell some potential, but can't see I'm trying lots of different things, doing more and it's not needed into that breakthrough or I'm at a breaking point where this isn't sustainable.

17:13 I have health issues, my mental health is suffering. I need some help. I'd like to dive into the first scenario. The there's just something that they can't breakthrough. What's the mental block like? What's holding them back from the breakthrough? So just humans in general, when we're operating on a day-to-day basis, our mind, a lot of us think that we're in control of ourselves and we're in control about decision making. It's not the case. Only 5% of our mind is conscious and 95% is subconscious.

17:49 So we have these ingrained behavioral patterns of beliefs that are at play 24/7 every single time. Um, so which is what I was explaining in terms of I was numb to have stressed. I was until it was hard to ignore. So a lot of them are, they've learned to take on a lot. So when they're trying to breakthrough something, they'll they'll do, I'll do something different, but they're doing something different with the same conditioning. Or it's like, oh, maybe I just need to work harder or do more, but then doing more, it's just giving them more of the same results.

18:27 So it's, it's just the blind spot in terms of how have the hurtful things in my past affected how I relate to myself, which is affecting my decision making at this moment and at the next moment and at the next moment. So we just kind of start to lift the lids of some of the blind spots. So for example, I had a call yesterday with one of my clients and she has an issue with a partner and she was like, he's always taking control and he's like trying to control me and he's not letting me do things because they had a Thanksgiving party.

19:01 And then when I was questioning her, I said, how is he controlling you? And she was like, well, he just wants to be seen as the one who has it all together when I'm slaving in the background, this typical first one daughter thing. And I said, how does that look? She was like, well, he's giving away food and he didn't ask me if he should give it away. And he's like giving away our Corkscrew when it's the only one we had. And I said, he sounds like he's a really generous person. And I said, So what?

19:28 What is the trigger? She was like, well, he he focuses on everyone else, but he doesn't ask me before he does things. I said, is he asking everyone else? And she said no, you know, and I, I was like, how's he supposed to know that you need to be asked if you notice? She's like, Oh my gosh, I didn't realise. I'm like, he just seems like he's just generous and he thinks he's helping you, but you're not telling him what helps looks like for you. So it's just those blind spots. Well seeing as I had to raise myself I was never confide like checked in on or I wasn't asked for my opinion or.

20:04 My feelings either. So it's like if you've had to raise yourself and if you've had to hold space for other people and show up for other people, you haven't worked the muscle of people showing up for you. So it's not that skill to say, Hey, this is what I need. Hey, this is how I feel. So you've emotions that are not being expressed and then expecting people to show up how you show up and then when they don't show up in that way, you're triggered. You know, that's like, so it's, it's mind spots like that that are relate to the past that kind of show up in work, in intimate relationships with parenting.

20:40 So it's just uncovering those kind of little nuances that just kind of makes you think, Oh yeah, you're right. He isn't just doing this to me. He this is just how he is. So I need to communicate what I need. Yeah, I like half jokingly. I would complain to my parents that they they have never really checked in on me either. And I make fun of them and say, yeah, like they're your favorite daughters. And because I guess they do check in on me a little less often. But I think it's because I'm fine. They know I'll be fine.

21:15 It's not like I'm longing for that check in either. But that's why I said half jokingly, I give him a hard time. You know, are you not needing it? You know, it's like, maybe you don't need it as much as your siblings. I don't need it to keep going, but I appreciate it. Like now they know and I will like outrightly say what about me? Like, don't you care? Right. And I think it's like you're human and humans like our basic fundamental need is for love and be love. We want to feel part of tribe. So when we're giving and it's not reciprocal, it hurts because then it's like because you're comparing, right?

21:54 And you asked like, what are the blind spots? I kind of call it with you, right? One of the ways that you cope is like, oh, I don't need it. Like it's not I'm a pilot that you. It's interesting because even in my own journey, I had to see how I learnt to. I'm one of seven and I observed my mum nurturing my siblings and not nurturing me. That's a really hard thing for a child to deal with. So I had to find a way to cope and be OK with them. And then it was like, oh, I'm fine. Like I don't eat, but then that shuts me down emotionally.

22:28 And then I'll get comments from people growing up like you're robotic or you're. Yeah, not very affectionate. Yeah, and I'm like, I didn't have a model to me. Firstly, I wasn't nurtured and then secondly, I learned how to survive without receiving that nurture, shutting myself off to my emotions. But in my core, it's not the truth, you know? And what I know as one daughters that a lot of people don't know is that we are extremely sensitive. Extremely. We can sense and feel what everyone else needs in the room because we're so hyper aware to showing up at other people's needs.

23:06 Yeah, like we I thought it was just a cancer thing, being hyper aware and super sensitive of how everyone else is doing. And I'm a SO, I'm a cancer and a first born daughter. Yeah, I'm an Aries on the first one. I'm a fire sign. But yet no matter which first one I speak to, same thing. You know, we are feeling so much but we've learnt to like eat like ducks. On the surface we're just sliding along. Underneath we're doing. This yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like we. Create all of these copper mechanisms that don't necessarily serve us in the long run because we don't train people how to show up for us.

23:49 I think one of the deepest desires I identified and 1st sponsors, we want to be taken care of. You know, we want to just like surrender for a while. We don't know how to receive it. So it feels really vulnerable. We don't know how to ask for it. We're scared of being rejected and and made to feel that we're unimportant. So there's so much that comes from allowing that in that we just learn how to be hyper independent and be OK, be hyper independent, but it's not what we truly want at once. We're break that down, the things start coming a lot easier and we see more success.

24:26 We feel like life is more sustainable. We are able to create a ecosystem of support. So I created a framework called the Strategic Vulnerability Framework, because what first model is not really good at is vulnerability. And it's the antidote to every single problem that they have is regardless of what she was, you know, So yeah, it's interesting. Wow, that's yeah, it is very interesting. And I mean, it's funny that you caught me doing the same thing that a lot of your clients are doing. So back to your moment of when you realize I can't do this anymore.

25:05 So you said you had a breakdown and that was that the reason why you cancelled the wedding? Like, do you remember what were the pieces that fell apart? The the first point was the breakdown of the relationship because in my mind I was going to have one partner and that would be my partner for the rest of my life. And then I would have kids and the wife and kids friends and the multimedia isn't all of the things. So being with him, we were friends from the age of 14. We started dating at 18. We were engaged by 19 and then 20.

25:42 By 20, if I had saved enough money to pay for my own wedding because my dad was in my life at the time he is now. And just the realization everyone kind of admired our relationship. We didn't really argue. He still like meant a lot to me. But I had repeated the patterns I was running at the family where I was like the emotional and financial provider. So it was making him feel like he didn't have a place. So I felt that I kind of didn't have room because I didn't know how to receive. So I realized, oh wow, I would need to change in order for him to be happy.

26:18 And I don't think that's fair on either of us. And I didn't have the tools or now knew it was possible to change. So I ended up and like telling everyone four months before the day that we've decided we're not going to go ahead with it. And that in itself, my mum was angry with me. My my friends were like, didn't beat you. Did he cheat on you? And I'm like, no. And they're like, what are you doing? So I had to deal with the emotional kind of backlash from that. And then just three months after I get given this ultimatum at my job and I'm like, you're not going to have control, but tell me to keep my my opinions and myself.

26:54 I joined the company on the condition, but I will learn how to run a business because I was ready to start my own business. So I think get in the ultimatum at the business, it was just kind of like, well, I was going to start my own business anyway. I guess this is forcing me to. So I was propelled without it being I didn't feel like it was my choice. It was clearly my choice because I could have kept my opinions of myself and stayed. But I left and I think all of those circumstances happened at the same time where I'm like, I was supposed to get married.

27:26 Now I'm single, I was in this high flying job but as a partner and now I'm unemployed and all. It just was too much for me to fathom at the same time, and that's what kind of led to the breakdown. So before you became who you are today, like I'm sure you had to go through recovery, healing, and you had to let go of certain things. Like, you have to just actively choose to not be the one carrying all that responsibility anymore. What were some of the things that went through your mind? Like, were you afraid to do these?

28:03 Do you feel I'm going to be so irresponsible if I decided not to keep my role anymore? All of the above, but I didn't go cold Turkey. There's still, I feel like

28:18 there's there's levels to change. So even now I'm having to discover little things. But the key turning point for me is being was being able to see how I was contributing to the things that were hurting me rather than focusing laymen, everything and everyone outside of me. So little things like I did have to realize, well, no one actually told me to play this role. I felt it was and I took it on and then I've trained them to expect it for me. So if I want to be able to consider, be considered, I have to consider myself and I need to stop saying no when I don't have the resources or the capacity all the time.

28:59 So then like the first no was so hard, like I'm shaking to think that I'm like selfish and I don't love them and all of the things. And they did react because it was like, who do you think you are saying no? What do you mean you're not going to help me? And I had to kind of stick to it. But it's not that I don't help. I help when I have the capacity to help. And after a period of time, they started to understand that it's like, oh, OK, well, she says yes when she can. So when she says no, she must not really be able to, you know, So but it was little micro changes like that.

29:33 And then when I moved to Mexico, because that started maybe three years before I moved to Mexico. And then when I moved to Mexico, there was this uproar. And I was thinking, what's the problem? And they were like, you can't go, You're not accessible. I'm like, you're married with children. What do you mean? You have your own life? How? Why can't I? Yeah, but then that showed me again, oh, there's still a oh, as long as the doctor's closed, then if anything goes wrong, we'll we'll rely on her. I was like, interesting.

30:06 So this is good in Mexico. Maybe I was also. There's always levels of that disconnection. I had a conversation with my youngest sister last week and I shared something and she was like, I'm, I'm finally starting to understand you. And what we shared is that she said, I would always think that you were really harsh and direct and that you didn't really understand people. But what I'm really, what I saw was that you understand everyone. You understand them more than anyone in the room. And I was like, yeah, it's not that I was direct.

30:44 It's just I was shutting myself off. So how would I be able to know how to not shut them off? You know, it's like, that's how I would survive it. And she was like, I'm getting to understand you. And I'm like, thank you for seeing me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For I'm going to be 14 next year. But we've it's there's been so many conversations for me trying to explain it. And she finally heard and she was like, I get it, you know? So yeah, there's, there's layers of I'm rewiring and reprogramming and those multiple things that I had to change along the way.

31:15 And I still do the work. Even though I'm supporting eldest daughters, it doesn't me or first one daughters my my work and growth work is still very, very present. Wow that's beautiful. It must mean a lot to you when she's I'm finally starting to see you because us first born daughters, no one really asks us or try to understand us. No, we're close. So she's tried, but I think that she's just been so caught up in her triggers with me because I was like her mum. So she's like, you did this and you did that, but it's hard for her to like put that to the side.

31:49 But I've been apologizing with me doing the work. I've been taking responsibility of the impact of how I showed up. And with that, she's put in her guards now. So she now has the capacity to be able to, to hear me too, which is it is like it's the first time that I had that was like 2 years ago when I was on a call with two of my sisters and they were like, we really just want to say thank you to you for everything you did because we wouldn't be the women we are now if you didn't I. Was like, that's so nice.

32:18 Yeah, it was, yeah. Yeah, and I have two sisters and in both of their speeches at my wedding, like the me helping them was the recurring theme. Yeah. Yeah, like I say, it's really just both natural and we just take on this role because there's no one else. And we're kind of like the mother figure, Like the mother figure. And for you, you have an extra layer of your name for anyone who understands the culture. Yeah, it is. It's it's unfortunate. I think we should love future generations of first of all just actually enjoy being children.

32:58 Yeah, yeah. So the what you were saying like learning how to be vulnerable, learning when you need help yourself, knowing how to say no. That's common for anyone who's not not a first born daughter as well. So for anyone who is in similar situations, feeling like they're the one holding it together, feeling like they're always the one doing it, there's no one else they can depend on, what can they start asking themselves or start noticing to help them out of this cycle? Well, first thing is that they need to unknown themselves to their feelings.

33:36 If they have been very externally focused, they probably don't know what they're feeling. And they engage in a lot of stories like I'm, I'm fine, I'm OK, I don't need it. Or it's like, no, let's be real in, in moments, like really try to desensitize yourself to your triggers. What is triggering you? Because if a, if a, if the button didn't exist within you, it can't be pressed. So the opportunity is to look at that button and then address why it's there so that you can remove it, which will then allow you to be emotionally free to, to show up.

34:12 And a lot of the times the trigger is related to a need that you had in your childhood that wasn't fulfilled. And then you get to repair it yourself in the present moment to start giving you yourself the love, the care, the acknowledgement, the validation, all of the things that you didn't get so that you can not need it to not be coming from a deficit. So that when people don't show it to you, it doesn't affect you in the same way, you know, And we do that in a whole number of ways by celebrating our wins, by no learning how to say no, by feeling like, oh, my body needs rest.

34:50 That even though my mind is saying I have to do this, this and this, and I have this never ending To Do List, it never ends. So just take the time to go and rest because then you can show up more powerfully to do that, To Do List a lot quicker and with more enthusiasm. And so I would definitely say learn how to listen to yourself, learn how to communicate how you're feeling instead of dismissing it. Learn how to give yourself what you need so that you can start re parenting yourself into wholeness which will allow you to have a lighter view of life that your life experiences.

35:25 It will help you show up differently in your relationships also. Thank you. Those are such wise words like and it's just something that kind of just like click, wake up. Easier said, but if you. Yeah, it happens. For mothers who have first born daughters, what should they look at to see if they are creating that same trap? Yeah. So if your child, this usually starts happening in teenagers, if your child starts telling you you treat me differently or you love your my siblings more than me, that's a really clear sign that they feel that there is a difference in the way that they're being treated.

36:08 And I would try to a lot of parents go into kind of a dictator role where it's like, I'm the adult. I know best. I'm going to tell you, you're going to do what you want and it's for your best interest. But if we spend a little bit more time to kind of probe, it's almost like, oh, you love them more instead of being like, no, I don't, I love you all the same. Just actually inquire what is it that makes you feel that way? OK, and and, and what is it that it would make you feel loved? And, and that in itself is healing because they're being listened to and they're being, you know, there's space being held for them and truly receive it instead of instead of receiving it as an attack.

36:50 Just be, be curious with it to see like, OK, well, how can I learn from this? Or maybe there's something I'm not seeing that I'm doing. And if her feelings or his feelings are valid, what can I take on on board to be mindful of because I do love my kids equally? How can I show up in alignment to their love, love language or what they need, you know? And I think that, and it's so just, I've seen in situations where just listening to the child has made a huge difference in terms of how they feel because they they feel seen, they feel considered so.

37:25 If they're typical first born sons or daughters, they may not say it though. Would you say just observe them or look at your own actions and then observe your first born's action and then see if there's any place that you're neglecting because you, I think they're fine. Yeah, it's hard to tell because I think we're really masters of acting like everything is OK. So it's it's like, what would you be looking for? Because on the surface they look fine. But I think first one daughters, they do, they have, they grow resentment.

38:00 So the resentment usually comes out at some point. That's the point to like look at it. But if you're looking for actions that you don't see, then it's going to be hard. And also the other thing, if you suspect something's wrong, but they're not talking, that's a different thing. So if they're given, I used to give the silent treatment, I was very good at giving the silent treatment. It could last for a week. But if they're doing something like giving you the silent treatment, then you can share like, you know, you know, when I was a kid, I used to give the silent treatment too.

38:29 And it was when this happened and my mom said this and it hurt me. That also opens the door because they're like, oh really? You know, So they try to find corresponding examples of relatedness where you can kind of share from your experience if they're not opening up and see if that opens something up for them. That's some great, great advice so that we can stop this from repeating in the generations to come. No more, no more. All right, so let's play a rabbit fire round of quick questions. Quick answer, gut reaction.

39:05 Sure, if you were one of your younger siblings, what would be the biggest difference in your life? Good question. I would be a lot more carefree. I feel like I would be a lot more playful. So usually when I meet people, I'm like fully myself. My brain has created this amount of time or amount of interaction. I don't know what the parameter is, but there's a point where I'm comfortable to be myself. And I, if I were myself and I'd take bigger risks, I would be more myself like with everyone and just kind of show up unapologetically me and constantly overthinking and what's appropriate and are these people going to think I'm too much and what's going on for them?

39:50 And you know, so that would be the biggest shift. Yeah, unapologetic. I can never become that because I see people don't. Never. Like, as in, if I need to be unapologetic, I need to really, really put a lot of effort, yeah. But it's. Possible. Never say never. Yeah, it's a big, it's a huge hill to walk out. The first one. You're a perfectionist, but yeah. OK, next one. What's the least first born thing you've done? Probably moving to Mexico the way that I did. I kind of just made the decision. I, I got here thinking I was going to be here for a month and I didn't go back home for 17 months.

40:34 I packed up my house from here. Like I found a friend and was like, go over, put it in the I'd say I'm going to rent it out. And that's kind of how I transitioned. So that was very spontaneous, but it was a decision that impacted everyone and I didn't run back. Usually everyone would like react and I'd be like, OK, maybe I'm being irrational. I'll come back and then I'll transition it. And I was just like, no, I'm not going back. Well that's you would be more free if you were one of your younger siblings.

41:05 Well. Good for you, good for you. What is your go to way to not be the responsible one for a day? What is my go to way to not be the responsible? I feel like the last five years of living in Salome has been and not being the responsible one. I took 2 1/2 years of not working at all. I was, well, I worked 4 to 7 hours a week because I was like, what do I want to do? Like I don't want to work. I've been working since I can remember. It's like, so then don't work. It's like, oh, OK, I won't work. So that's that's living in tuloma.

41:44 Tuloma is very go with the flow. It's a spiritual unity. So it's kind of like it's just flow. So the London first one daughter was like, yeah, what's going on? Like things the. Environment just keep you in that bubble. Yeah, no, this, this has really allowed me to surrender into, you know, whatever it is. Like when I first came, I was annoyed that people were leaving me waiting two hours when I had meetings with them. Now I go to a meeting with my laptop so I can focus on other things. And when they show up, it's not a problem, you know, So I become a lot more easy going.

42:22 There's still a waste though. But I think that living in Salome is probably, I only know, I know a handful of first born daughters in Salome, but it's not the majority. And I I think that's by design. All right. And last one, if first born daughter energy is a drink, what would it be? Red Bull. Red Bull. Yeah, or if it's a if it's a item, it's like the Energizer Bunny. It's like, I don't know, wait one daughters get the energy to they could be carrying a lot, they could be drained, they could be sick, but they have this program that allows them to just drive through and drive through.

43:06 So I say, yeah, Red Bull, They they have a lot of energy and it gives them wings, so. Give some wings. Yes, we can fly. Well, thank you very much, Zaku, for having this conversation with me. I am. I learned something about myself, something I you made me see myself differently and like, you know, you uncovered some flying spot for me too. And then I think it's useful for anyone who's in the position of just feeling like you're holding it together because I know it's not just for support daughters, but we're just a little bit more prone to it.

43:42 So and anyone, if you have an elder sister who is the first born daughter, go give them a hug, say thank you, send them a message, see how they're doing, check in. Yes, the silent ones are also needing probably the most most love, so go love on them. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me and that was fun. It's what I've been finding when I get interviewed by first born daughters. The conversations, great. Thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One. If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to follow and share it with anyone who needs to hear it.

44:20 And let's keep the conversation going. Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment. Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's continue to burn our minds and discover what's possible.