Why the Best Leaders Act More Like Giraffes - Rosemarie Downer

0:00 Leaders, sometimes they're meant to be leaders, but because of

0:05 lack of vision, they become managers.

0:07 Managers are task oriented. So when you when you don't have

0:13 a vision, you're just getting the work done.

0:16 You just want to get it done now, not thinking about where

0:20 you want to be later on. A leader has to have vision,

0:25 which is a better site of the future, though it's not in

0:30 reality. You can see it as the leader,

0:33 and with that vision, you know where you're taking the people.

0:36 But if you don't have vision, you're just getting this work

0:40 done today, this project done, this deadline met, this budget

0:44 requirement met, and then you're good.

0:46 And then the next one shows up without thinking of the day.

0:52 There's a reason why some people walk into a room and everything

0:54 shifts, even when they say very little.

0:58 It's not confidence, it's not authority, and it's definitely

1:01 not volume. In today's conversation, Doctor

1:05 Rosemary Downer helped me see leadership in a completely

1:08 different way, through a metaphor I didn't expect, one

1:12 that has very little to do with titles and everything to do with

1:16 perspective, patience, and developing others.

1:20 What's the metaphor? A giraffe?

1:24 If you've ever struggled to lead or struggle to find someone

1:27 worth following, this one's for you.

1:35 Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and

1:38 I'll be diving into the minds of incredible people, each an

1:42 expert in their very own way. Together, we'll uncover insights

1:46 and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to

1:50 navigate your own unique journey in life.

1:52 Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?

1:55 Let's blend. So we have talked a lot about

2:03 leadership these days. How to lead better, faster, more

2:08 effectively. But what is true leadership?

2:12 That's what we're going to talk about today with my guest,

2:15 Doctor Rosemary Downer. Hi, Doctor Rosemary.

2:19 Hello, good day. Good morning for you.

2:22 Morning for me as well. It's good to be here.

2:25 Great to have you here. So before we begin, I know that

2:29 you have had a lot of different experiences in your past, so how

2:35 did you get involved with leadership and all the things

2:38 you've done in the past that sort of led you down this path?

2:43 OK, so I honestly can say throughout my life I've not been

2:49 able to get away from leadership.

2:52 So how did I get here? I almost always find myself in a

2:56 leadership role whether I want to or not, whether I'm hiding or

2:59 not. I'll give you an example.

3:01 Coming up in school, the teacher may give a group activity, and

3:05 so the teacher puts you in small groups to work on a project, and

3:08 everybody's sit, and now everybody's just looking at each

3:10 other. Nobody's take, nobody's talking,

3:13 right? Nobody's initiating.

3:14 I'm always the one to start the conversation.

3:17 Because I start the conversation, I end up being the

3:20 leader. It just happens.

3:22 Is that because you want to start motion start action or do

3:28 you know why? I think it's I'm just wired to

3:31 see things progress. I'm just wired to see things

3:34 move, not being stagnant. And that's what a leader does.

3:37 A leader mobilizes. A leader takes the folks, the

3:42 constituents, the body, the organization from one level to

3:46 the next. That's what a leader does.

3:47 Stagnancy irritates a leader. A leader is always looking way

3:51 down the road and seeing something better than the

3:54 present. A leader is always in a state of

3:56 unrest. So.

3:58 So, yeah, I always want to just get it done.

4:01 We have this thing to do. What are we waiting around for?

4:03 So you take that, you take that, Let's get it done.

4:05 And I think that's pretty much the reason, yeah.

4:08 So you were born with this proclivity of to start action.

4:13 I do believe so, yeah. Action minded, you know?

4:16 Yeah. Movement.

4:17 Yeah. Yeah, I'm similar because I'm in

4:21 project management field, so movement progress, making sure

4:26 things are going is also my core focus.

4:30 Between You Were Young and Fast forward to today, what are some

4:35 of the key moments that have led you into getting more involved

4:40 with leadership and even writing a book about leadership?

4:43 So that's pretty easy to answer because in my adult years, from

4:49 young adult to adult, I did youth ministry for 30 years.

4:53 I've LED youth ministry for 30 years, founded a nonprofit

4:57 organization that power church ministry that served young

5:01 people from several churches, and that ministry could have

5:06 easily grown to be a national organization or even

5:09 international organization. But my biggest challenge, my

5:13 biggest barrier, were church leaders.

5:16 Why is that? Because church, church leaders

5:19 can be territorial. They can be insecure.

5:22 So when they see something growing, they think you're

5:24 taking away their young people. They think you are doing too

5:27 much. It's they, they don't see the

5:30 fact that we can do way more together than you than

5:34 separated. So you get this silo situation,

5:38 you get this territorial behavior.

5:41 So that's that's what I came up against.

5:43 And before the leadership book I wrote before this one is called

5:47 is titled The Sell Scarred Church because I talked about 7,

5:52 I would say scars that leaders make to the church due to poor

5:57 leadership skills. But this particular book,

6:00 Leaders are like Giraffes came about because in that nonprofit

6:03 organization that power church ministry, I used to do a

6:07 conference every other year. I'm called Wow conference, Word

6:12 of Worth Conference. And in that conference I had

6:15 several tracks and one of the track was leadership track.

6:18 And this particular year I needed a facilitator for a

6:21 workshop and I couldn't find anyone.

6:23 So I was forced to do the workshop because there was no

6:27 unfit to fill the the gap. And it I mean, I was busy.

6:30 I'm putting the conference together.

6:32 I'm, I'm, you know, putting everything together.

6:34 So I didn't have time really to put a workshop together.

6:37 And in prayer, I'm like, Lord, I have so many things on my plate

6:40 right now. I have to do this workshop.

6:42 I need to know what to talk about.

6:43 And I heard in my spirit, leaders are like giraffes, just

6:46 wow, plate and straight. Yeah, leaders are like giraffes.

6:50 Never thought about the giraffe. Never, Never liked the giraffe.

6:54 Now they're my best friends. I love giraffes.

6:56 And as I was researching to put the presentation together, I'm

6:59 like, there's a lot of information here.

7:02 When I did the workshop, this young man said to me as I was

7:05 walking out the room. So it was me.

7:07 That's a lot of good information.

7:08 You could write a book about this, and I registered it.

7:10 And there it is. Several years later, I wrote the

7:12 book. Yeah, I was researching for this

7:15 episode and I read parts of your book and there are a lot of

7:18 traits that stood out to me that I was like, Oh my God, I never

7:23 thought about it that way. Yeah.

7:25 Yeah. So let's dive into a few of

7:26 those. We won't give it all away.

7:28 Right. There's nineteen of them that I

7:30 talked about, so we definitely can't cover all 19 today.

7:33 But yeah, I do a training on it. And when I do this training,

7:37 people are jaw dropped. They're like, Oh yeah, I never

7:42 thought about this. Right.

7:43 Like. Yeah.

7:46 OK. So one of them is you talked

7:48 about vision, you talked about the earlier too, but you talked

7:51 about vision as a key leadership trait giraffes can see far down

7:55 the road. So what do you believe most

7:58 about leaders getting wrong about long term vision?

8:03 Leaders. Sometimes they're meant to be

8:06 leaders, but because of lack of vision, they become managers.

8:11 So managers are task oriented. So when you when you don't have

8:18 a vision, you're just getting the work done.

8:21 You just want to get it done now, not thinking about where

8:25 you want to be later on. Vision.

8:29 A leader has to have vision, which is a better sight of the

8:35 future, though it's not in reality.

8:37 You can see it as the leader, and with that vision, you know,

8:41 where you're taking the people. But if you don't have vision,

8:45 you just getting this work done today, this project done, this

8:49 deadline met, this budget requirement met, and then you're

8:52 good. And then the next one shows up

8:54 without thinking of the big picture.

8:56 Yeah. Would you say it's like more

8:57 reacting, less responding? Yeah, yeah.

9:01 You're not proactive. You're, you're reactive.

9:04 A person, a leader without vision is is a lot of times in

9:08 crisis mode because you're fixing things.

9:10 So if someone is just listening to that, they realize, oh I have

9:15 been in this manager mode, what can they do to start

9:18 recalibrating? Sit down and ask themselves why.

9:23 Why am I doing this? What's the big why at the end of

9:27 the day? What do I want to be said about

9:31 what I'm doing? Where, where am I going?

9:34 Where do I want to be a year from now, three years from now,

9:38 five years from now, 10 years from now?

9:40 Where do I want to see the organization vision propels?

9:43 So you've got to ask yourself the long the long term question,

9:49 not the now question. Yeah.

9:51 How am I going to meet the budget this month?

9:53 No, now, now it has to be a long term question.

9:58 Yeah, that's how you get out of that management mode.

10:01 And by asking yourself that question, I think the answers

10:04 help with clarity. Exactly.

10:06 The answers helped to create the path to get to that to that,

10:10 yes, absolutely. Yeah.

10:12 So at the day of the recording, recently, there's just been so

10:15 many things happening in the world.

10:18 You can say that anytime. But recently there's just been a

10:21 lot more, maybe because media is more far reaching now.

10:27 So we definitely see a lot of leaders who are confusing noise

10:32 with impact. That is so.

10:35 Good one. One of the things that you also

10:39 mentioned in the book, it's about how Giraffe moves

10:42 gracefully without making noise, so silence and leadership.

10:48 So I want to get into that. First of all, what is your take

10:52 about noise and impact? I love that statement.

10:57 I love what you just said because it's so true.

10:59 Social media is awesome. It is.

11:03 It is like it's almost like we absolutely needed today, but

11:08 it's also tremendously dangerous, profoundly dangerous.

11:12 It really is. So it it it gives an individual

11:16 volume, it gives an individual visibility.

11:19 It it gives an individual's false sense of importance and

11:25 impact, right. So you can get on there, like

11:27 you just said, to make a whole lot of noise.

11:29 They make a whole lot of visibility show, show up doing a

11:32 whole lot of things, but it's actually noise.

11:35 It's meaningless. What I love about the giraffe,

11:39 giraffe is predominantly dumb. When I say dumb, not stupid when

11:44 I say dumb in the sense of non verbal.

11:47 Yeah, verbal. Yeah.

11:51 They just make very little noise, very little sound, and

11:55 their presence is impactful not because of their size, they just

12:01 carry that presence. So the day a leader needs to say

12:06 I'm the head of this organization and I'm saying XYZ,

12:10 you have a problem. The day you have to announce

12:12 that you are the leader there is a problem.

12:16 Leaders should walk in a room, Walk in a space where you have

12:22 dominion over not just any space because you can't be be king

12:26 over someone elses Kingdom, but where you have or you are led to

12:29 lead. You should be able to walk in a

12:31 space and because you show up, things shift your presence

12:37 because of the authority as a leader that you carry without

12:41 having to run off your mouth and give a whole lecture and raise

12:44 your voice. Now that's what I mean by silent

12:48 but profound. Yeah, I was in the Bronx Zoo and

12:52 they did have giraffes. So I was thinking about today's

12:55 recording when I was there. Just like, because they're,

12:59 they're the tallest mammal, right?

13:01 Like they're just up there. It's almost like they're

13:04 overlooking all of the animals and ourselves.

13:08 Yeah, that what you just said. Just because they're there.

13:12 Yeah, you see them, you feel them.

13:15 You almost feel like, oh, I can't misbehave.

13:18 So in the book you also mentioned that because they're

13:21 so tall, they eat from the top of the tree.

13:25 One of my favorite traits of the giraffe, yes, so the giraffe

13:30 feeds from they feed from the top of Acacia tree which grows

13:35 to be quite tall, right? And their knowledge there is

13:40 eating is aligned to learning. So leaders need to be learning

13:47 or eating from a place that their constituents don't eat or

13:52 learn from. Because in the wild, only the

13:55 giraffe eats from that place. No other animal eats from that

14:00 place. So if the leader is learning or

14:02 eating from a place where their constituents is now, they can

14:04 bring new information to their constituents.

14:07 They can be a leader, They can be a teacher of new information

14:12 because they're being fed from a, from a, a place that their

14:15 people can't reach. Yeah.

14:17 And the giraffe eats almost constantly.

14:21 Oh, really? Yes, many, many, many, many

14:24 hours a day. They're eating because all they

14:27 eat is leaf. They don't eat flesh.

14:29 And so another lesson from that is leaders should be constant,

14:34 ongoing, lifelong learners. Yeah.

14:37 The the eating and learning that is genius.

14:43 They're constantly learning. They're constantly eating.

14:45 It's important to be constantly learning because if anyone stops

14:50 learning, you can't improve. Yeah, think of a learner, think

14:53 of a leader who's not learning. What are they bringing to the

14:56 people? Recycled information, right.

14:58 And people aren't unlearned anymore.

15:00 If they, if they have a leader without knowledge, they they're

15:04 going to be gone. They, they're not going to stick

15:06 around anymore. Especially young people, the

15:08 millennials and younger, They're they're out because they're

15:10 intelligent these days, more intelligent.

15:12 Well learned. Yeah, Yeah.

15:15 So like when we when we talk about leaders, we tend to think

15:18 of like company CEO, prime ministers of countries,

15:22 presidents of countries. But it doesn't stop there.

15:25 I feel like we are all leaders in our own ways.

15:30 For someone who's not in these positions, how can they apply

15:33 some of these things? So it's not, it's not

15:38 necessarily at that level, but you said a statement just now,

15:42 we're all leaders in our own right.

15:45 I am not sure IA 100% agree with that statement because people

15:51 are in positions that think of what a leader is.

15:55 It's a leader stands out from the crowd, a leader you

16:00 recognize the leader, you your leader doesn't blend in, you

16:05 know, and many of us are in our own space that we should be

16:09 leading. But if someone walks in that

16:11 space, they can't identify us as a leader because we look like

16:14 everybody else. We talk like everybody else, we

16:15 act like everybody else. That should not be a leader,

16:19 because a leader is always modeling, a leader is always

16:24 teaching, whether they are talking or not.

16:27 Yeah, yeah. So you can be a student, college

16:33 student, high school student and say, oh, you're a leader in your

16:36 own right. Then you need to be standing

16:38 out. You need to be need to

16:40 understand the concept of leader.

16:42 Leaders have followers, and I'm not talking about follow

16:45 followers on social media. Leaders have followers.

16:49 If you are a leader and you have no follower, you're just taking

16:53 a walk all by yourself. Yeah.

16:56 So it's it's too broad a sweep to say we are all leaders in a

17:01 row. I'm glad you pointed that out

17:03 because given how easy it is now to create content, make a

17:07 statement, many of us may mistake that, but with mistake

17:13 followers, quote UN quote with real life followers.

17:17 And that reminded me of another thing that you wrote about in

17:19 the book, how leaders, they birth other leaders.

17:23 Powerful. That, yeah, that was the just

17:27 thinking of the image of that was so powerful.

17:30 Let's talk a little bit more about that.

17:33 Like I think you use the analogy of how giraffes were born.

17:36 So giraffes give birth standing up.

17:40 Yeah. OK.

17:42 And their belly is about 6 feet off the ground.

17:46 So that newborn is dropped 6 feet.

17:51 Entering in the world is dropped 6 feet, and the newborn lands on

17:56 its four legs. Yeah.

17:59 So giraffes leaders give birth to independents, not dependents,

18:07 right? So because a baby being born of

18:10 all mammals, giraffe babies are most independent than any other

18:16 mammal. When they're born in hours, the

18:18 baby is able to walk because leaders or slash giraffes give

18:24 birth to independence, not dependence.

18:26 The the myth or the misunderstanding today is the

18:31 more people depend on me, the better leader I am.

18:34 No, no, no, no, no. The more leaders you develop,

18:37 the better you are as a leader. And if you read further in the

18:42 book, you might have seen it where when that baby is born,

18:46 the mother is not being abusive, but the mother kicks the

18:49 newborn. The newborn goes up in the air

18:53 and lands on the, it's, it's legs, but it drops because the

18:57 legs are weak. It's not strong yet.

19:00 And the mother kicks the baby again.

19:02 He goes up in the air and now he lands on his feet.

19:05 When I read that, I was like, Oh my God, where's, where's,

19:09 where's giraffe abuse association to rescue these

19:15 babies. But but it was a way of telling

19:18 the the baby, life is here, get up and go, don't depend on me,

19:24 get up and walk. And after the second kick, that

19:27 baby is able to get up and walk. So leaders don't enable leaders.

19:32 Leaders don't come to rescue me. I mean in time, but yes.

19:37 Yeah, it sounds more like they coach then.

19:41 Like the kick, the act of kicking may feel like coaching

19:45 little. So how would that look like in

19:47 real life? In real life, so in while I was

19:51 carrying you, while I was mentoring, while I was

19:55 cultivating you at training and pouring into you as a leader, I

19:59 equipped you sufficiently that when I'm beginning to wean away

20:03 from you as my direct as your direct mentor or coach, you are

20:08 ready to assume leadership role. So now you have stepped into

20:12 leadership role. Coming out of that womb is

20:15 stepping into leadership role. Now that you've stepped into

20:18 leadership role, you meet your first challenge, which means

20:21 you're going to have to stand up in the middle of it.

20:23 I am not going to carry you. I'll plot you enough.

20:26 I'm not going to carry. Now the other thing to notice is

20:29 that the mother giraffe doesn't abandoned the baby giraffe.

20:32 The mother giraffe is still hovering around watching over

20:35 the baby giraffe. So I'm not going to abandon you,

20:38 but I'm not going to rescue. You.

20:39 Yeah, because recently, like in the last 10, maybe 15 years, you

20:45 know, there's always this, like you're never ready when it comes

20:48 to getting to the next level. More and more people, they are

20:53 given jobs or titles before they're actually ready.

20:57 And what I mean is they pick might not have experience

21:01 managing that sort of work or assuming that kind of role, but

21:05 they're just put in there. Do you think that's premature

21:08 then? Like is there a lack of

21:10 development in our younger generations before just putting

21:15 them in charge? Because I see a lot because I

21:17 have a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends in like,

21:19 especially technology. It it depends on the role that

21:23 they're feeling, it depends on what they're doing.

21:26 And also it depends on after they're put in the position, are

21:30 they left in the position? Do they have support?

21:33 Do they have leadership? Do they have mentorship?

21:37 Do they have someone giving oversight and feedback?

21:40 So it would be a little difficult to give out A11 size

21:45 fit all answer because I believe that's going to be situation,

21:50 yeah. Yeah.

21:51 So it's more like I'm not going to rescue you, so let you do the

21:54 job. But I'm also not abandoning.

21:56 You. Meaning looking at what you've

21:58 done, giving you feedback. And I trust you to do it because

22:02 I've poured enough in you. You know, I kept, I carried you

22:05 for, let's say, nine months. And I had the gestation period

22:08 for a giraffe. It's, it's quite a while.

22:10 So I I have fed you. I have poured into you all this

22:14 time. I am giving birth to

22:15 independence. You were dependent on me then.

22:18 Now I'm weaning you. Yeah.

22:20 Yeah, I know it's it has really long for the for the baby

22:24 giraffe to be able to walk. So tie to the examples that we

22:30 just talked about leaders birthing other leaders,

22:32 developing them and we talked about coaching the kicking.

22:36 How do you balance the gentle side of leadership with like the

22:40 tough love, which is kind of like the SO?

22:43 The first time the the mother kicks the baby baby calf, she

22:48 licks the calf when the baby lands before she kicks it.

22:52 The second time, she she licks the calf.

22:56 In other words, I love you, I care about you, I want to see

23:01 you succeed. I am here.

23:03 Then she kicks him again, right? And the baby lands and she

23:08 again, she doesn't go off, she doesn't abandoned.

23:11 She's she's in the area watching over even weeks after the baby's

23:16 born, she watches over the baby. So there is care there.

23:21 And then they, there's a herd. So if the mother has to go out

23:25 and look for food, there's some there's there other mature

23:29 giraffe in the area where the baby is.

23:32 So you have several mothers bring their baby in the same

23:35 space and they have a mature giraffe in the area watching

23:39 over them. So there is concern, expressed

23:43 concern for the baby giraffe. It's not like I just kick you

23:46 and go about your business. I'm off now.

23:49 Not at all. Yeah, that is what I'm seeing

23:52 very often now in the corporate world, like the people are put

23:57 into position and they're just kind of let to do the job

24:00 themselves and if they don't produce results.

24:03 Right, right. So there, there needs to be

24:06 mentoring, there needs to be feedback, there needs to be like

24:10 you mentioned, coaching, training, equipping.

24:13 Even if you bring the person in the position before they're

24:16 fully skilled up and there is a need for someone to come

24:20 alongside that person, right, Work with them, train them up

24:24 and then gradually wean them. Yeah, it needs to.

24:27 Yeah. Are there other qualities of

24:29 giraffes that I'm sure out of 19 there would be some that

24:34 resonate more with you or do you have some favorites?

24:37 Are there other? Favorite ones the the eating and

24:41 the birth are my two favorite. Another one that that I really

24:46 like is the giraffe's tongue. The.

24:49 Tongue OK. Yes, yes, the giraffe's tongue

24:52 is extremely large. It's a it's big, right?

24:57 So the giraffe's tongue is like their hands.

25:00 Oh, they use their tongue almost like their hands.

25:03 So their tongue has this dark color on it and a coating on

25:07 their tongue because most times their tongue is extended out of

25:10 their mouth. OK, They use their tongue to

25:13 wrap around tree tree a branch that cage a tree branch and pull

25:20 it to strip the leaf off of the branch.

25:25 So their tongue has to be really strong now.

25:28 Yeah. The Acacia tree is also very

25:31 thorny. Exactly.

25:32 Think about it. Yeah.

25:34 But if the if the giraffe sees some luscious leaves on the

25:38 Acacia tree behind a branch that's full of thorns, that

25:43 doesn't stop the giraffe. They find a way to get around

25:47 the thorns or through the thorns and still wrap their tongue

25:51 around that branch and pulled it, pull it to strip the leaves

25:54 off. The the lesson from that is

25:57 obstacles don't stop leaders. The thorns are obstacles.

26:02 They don't stop leaders. Pain don't stop leaders.

26:06 It has to hurt to go through those thorns to get to those

26:09 leaves. And I really, really like that

26:12 because in the in the role of leadership, you are going to run

26:19 into challenges. Yeah, of course.

26:21 You're right, yeah, you're trying to get from this place to

26:25 a better place. So inevitably you're going to

26:28 have challenges, but that does that makes that's that doesn't

26:32 phase out the giraffes. And that's how a leader ought to

26:35 be. I really like that one.

26:37 Yeah, talking about giraffes for the last about 30 minutes or or

26:41 so. It just makes me want to turn on

26:44 National Geographic. Yeah.

26:47 I had no idea about the tongue because it's if it's full of

26:50 thorns as you were describing, like we listeners can't see us,

26:54 but like my face just Yeah, think.

26:57 About it. But they keep going nonetheless.

26:59 Sometimes as leaders, we give up ease, and if the giraffe gives

27:03 up, they're not going to get those leaves.

27:06 Yeah, yes. No, like there's no food and

27:09 that's a big motivator. It's funny how much we can learn

27:12 from animals because in a previous episode I talked about

27:16 like the our animal brain versus the logical, the verbal brain

27:20 and the verbal brain. Rationalize the animal brain is

27:26 what causes all the emotions and the natural reactions that we

27:31 have. What do you think of the most

27:34 underrated? Quality of leader is something

27:38 that people don't realize. When a leader is good, you tend

27:42 to see less of what they're doing.

27:44 Is there one that you think is very underrated?

27:47 Underrated. Probably resourcefulness or even

27:54 the surviving, overcoming the loneliness of leadership, I

27:59 think. I think I'll go with that one

28:01 because leadership can be lonely because you can't.

28:04 You can't tell everyone everything.

28:07 A lot of times leaders don't have that accountability part

28:09 and a lot of times they don't have someone that they can

28:12 directly share with and be open with.

28:14 So they carry a lot and and they they make it look on the outside

28:18 as if as if all is well. That's a lot of weight for

28:21 leaders. And that's why sometimes leaders

28:23 eventually crack. They break down because they're

28:26 doing so much it behind the scenes by themselves.

28:32 Yeah. And not not saying it's a

28:33 healthy way to go, but it's a reality.

28:35 Yeah, and when it comes to giraffes, the only ones they can

28:39 talk to are the other giraffes because they like you.

28:43 Are they slow? I can't talk to you.

28:46 That's why leaders should have other leaders that they can

28:49 bounce ideas off of, that they can be transparent with, that

28:52 they can express their frustration with.

28:54 Lone Ranger leaders never make it.

28:56 You wear yourself out, you burn out, you begin to hate what you

29:00 do. You become ineffective and there

29:03 are too many Lone Rangers out there.

29:05 It it doesn't work, you need a team.

29:08 Yeah, like you said, the accountability partners, someone

29:12 just like to bounce ideas off. OK, so for this last part of the

29:16 podcast, I'd like to play a rapid fire question round.

29:21 OK, so just quick reaction, that reaction.

29:25 What do you think the biggest myth about leadership is, in

29:27 your opinion? Myth, myth, myth.

29:30 They're never tired. They can just keep going like

29:32 machines. People just keep pulling on them

29:35 and they're they're never exhausted as such.

29:37 Like we said, eventually they crack.

29:39 Yes, yes. OK, what's 1 leadership quote

29:43 you hear too often and secretly roll your eyes at?

29:47 We're all leaders in their own right.

29:52 Rightfully so. OK, what's more dangerous, a

29:55 leader's ego or indecision? Ego.

30:00 Ego. A leader's ego?

30:01 Yeah. Why is that?

30:03 Because with ego, you'll make wrong decisions.

30:06 While indecision is dangerous, it's more dangerous to make

30:09 wrong decisions than that than not deciding at all.

30:12 So true. Next one.

30:14 What's one thing you hope people say about a legacy that a leader

30:19 leaves behind? The leader loved people.

30:21 The leader invested in people. His role was or her role was not

30:25 about her or him, but about people.

30:27 Yeah. OK, next one.

30:29 What gives you the most hope when it comes to the next

30:32 generation of leaders? The the fierceness of this

30:37 generation, the go getting attitude of this really there's

30:41 a there's a spirit out there that I want to make it.

30:46 I see it in the younger generation.

30:48 They're entrepreneurs, they're inventors, they're innovators.

30:51 They're not afraid. And that that's hopeful, yeah.

30:55 Yeah, yeah, OK. Last one.

30:57 What's a fun fact about giraffes that many of us don't know?

31:01 So we've already uncovered a lot today, but what It's one last

31:05 one that you want to say they? Barely sleep, they.

31:08 Barely sleep. And they can sleep standing up.

31:12 How about how many hours of the day?

31:14 Oh. I can't remember.

31:15 Let me Google that real quick. I can't remember.

31:17 I should know those little things, right?

31:20 30 minutes to two hours. What, given how big they are?

31:24 30 minutes to 2 hours. OK, so and some of this time

31:30 they spend standing up while they're sleeping.

31:33 Sleeping is aligned to doing nothing.

31:37 Resting. We can rest, but we should be.

31:40 Not shouldn't. As leaders, we don't.

31:42 We don't over rest. Yeah.

31:44 Yeah, though no wonder one misperception of leaders is that

31:48 they don't need, they don't need to rest.

31:50 Right, right. Right giraffes only sleep for 30

31:53 minutes to 20 to 2 hours, 30 minutes to two hours and.

31:56 Some of that, the amazing fact about that is some of that two

31:59 hours is spent standing up, so even while they're on break,

32:04 they're still alert. Yeah, they still have their

32:07 presence. Yes.

32:08 Yeah, yes, All right. Well, thank you very much for

32:12 talking to me, Doctor Rosemarie Downer.

32:15 I know you have written many books, and I'm sure a lot of

32:18 listeners will want to read more about your work.

32:22 Like how can they search for you?

32:24 So yeah, all my books are on Amazon, name is Rosemarie

32:28 Downer. I also have all my books on my

32:30 website, which is books by rosemarie.com.

32:34 It's just Marie for Rosemarie books by rosemarie.com on

32:39 Instagram and Facebook. It's books by Rosemarie or books

32:42 by Rosemarie Downer. So books by Rosemarie, I think

32:45 of it, books by Rosemarie Marie because I think there's a Mary

32:49 out there. You'll definitely find my work.

32:52 Yeah, and I for sure will leave all these information in the

32:55 show notes so listeners can ask us more questions.

32:59 All right, thank you very much. You're welcome for being here

33:02 today. You're.

33:02 Welcome, thanks for having me. Thank you.

33:09 Thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.

33:12 If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to follow and share

33:15 it with anyone who needs to hear it.

33:17 And let's keep the conversation going.

33:19 Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.

33:22 Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's

33:26 continue to plan our minds and discover what's possible.