Why Listening to Your Body Succeeds Where Diets Fail - Sammy Williams

0:00 My coach told me that I needed to lose weight, that I was too

0:03 fat. Mind, I was just like, OK, so

0:06 that's that's a message that I, you know, affected me.

0:10 And I actually didn't really realize that that had affected

0:13 me until I actually went through a recovery for my eating

0:16 disorder. It wasn't really until I

0:18 admitted to myself that I needed to change.

0:21 Because when other people tell you to change, you're not doing

0:25 it for yourself, you're doing it for them, or you're doing

0:27 because you feel guilt or whatever you want to please

0:30 others. But actually, you know, the time

0:33 that it really made a difference to me was when I decided that I

0:37 didn't want to live with this behaviour anymore, that I'd had

0:40 enough of it and I wanted to take steps to help myself.

0:47 That was Sammy Williams sharing how a single comment from a

0:50 swimming coach became the starting point of her eating

0:53 disorder and how she ultimately made the decision to reclaim her

0:56 relationship with food. In this episode, Sammy and I

1:00 have an honest, deeply personal conversation about eating

1:04 disorders, intuitive eating, and what it means to build a healthy

1:08 relationship with food in a world obsessed with diets and

1:11 trends. We also unpacked the critical

1:14 difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating.

1:18 One supports long term health and the other one keeps people

1:21 stuck in a cycle of deprivation and bingeing.

1:29 Welcome to the show Mind Blend. I'm your host, Karen Chong, and

1:33 I'll be diving into the minds of incredible people, each an

1:36 expert in their very own way. Together we'll uncover insights

1:40 and share ideas so you can be inspired and empowered to

1:44 navigate your own unique journey in life.

1:47 Ready to get curious and discover what's possible?

1:50 Let's blend. So at the time of the recording

1:54 is December in 2025 S? What does that mean?

1:58 Year end parties, holidays. At this time of the year, in a

2:02 lot of cultures, it means a lot of gathering, lot of food,

2:07 eating, just enjoying and just taking it easy.

2:11 Then comes January and people start making healthy New Year's

2:14 resolution. They're going back to the gym

2:17 doing dry January to cut out the alcohol that they overdid in the

2:20 holidays. So we're going to talk about

2:22 exactly that today with my guest, Sammy Williams.

2:26 Sammy is an associated registered nutritionist and

2:30 founder of Natural Nutrition, educating and empowering people

2:34 with the knowledge we all need to sustain health for life.

2:37 Hi, Sammy, welcome to MIND Blend.

2:40 Hi, Karen, Thank you for having me.

2:41 It's good to be here. Yeah, welcome.

2:44 And I'm really glad to have this conversation with you, with

2:47 someone also in the UK. Yeah, we're both witnessing the

2:51 cold, dark days at the moment. Yeah, yeah, which makes it even

2:55 harder. Yeah, it does.

2:57 Yeah. Although it is a beautiful day

2:58 today, I have to say I went out this morning and it was sunny

3:01 and not too cold so. Yeah, yeah, when the sun is out,

3:05 the mood lifted. Absolutely, Yeah.

3:08 I just got back from a trip in South Africa as well, so coming

3:11 back from like spring, so autumn, yeah, a bit challenging.

3:15 My body is like confused. It's going, yeah.

3:18 Where are we? Yeah, and the season also

3:21 effects our attitudes towards food a lot.

3:24 We'll dive a lot into that. But before that, I want to hear

3:28 your story because I know it's really impactful when you told

3:32 me, and it's not always the same as the life you have right now.

3:37 So let's talk about that. Yeah, absolutely.

3:41 So I guess it kind of started really my relationship with food

3:45 was quite complex when I was younger because I used to be a

3:48 competitive swimmer when I was young, like early morning

3:51 swimming when I was 8 years old. And obviously, like how you eat

3:55 is quite important when you're an athlete as a child, you know,

3:59 your body's continually changing and growing and everything.

4:02 So it's kind of hard to really know exactly what to eat

4:06 sometimes. And that I had an incident in,

4:10 in my early sort of swimming years where my coach told me

4:14 that I needed to lose weight, that I was too fat.

4:17 And you know, as a female learn, like learning, you know, it's

4:21 kind of about your body and everything else.

4:23 And I was wearing a swimsuit all the time because I was swimming

4:27 constantly, like morning. And it just really created a

4:32 disconnection with my body. Actually, I, I started to see my

4:35 body in a different way and that kind of, I guess like triggered

4:41 a series of different things happening to me, which led to me

4:47 developing an eating disorder in my like early, well, late teens,

4:50 early 20s, around the age of about 19.

4:54 And yeah, I just kind of, at the time, I just kind of thought it

4:58 was a normal behaviour because I grew up, you know, in the UK in

5:02 the 90s, there was lots of messaging in the media around

5:07 what a female body should look like, like that it should look

5:10 very skinny. It was like heroin chic was the

5:12 fashion. And, you know, as a young,

5:15 impressionable teenager, like, I internalized a lot of that

5:18 messaging alongside, you know, being constantly on show in my

5:24 body, you know, when I was swimming.

5:26 And I also did triathlons as well.

5:28 And, you know, having lots of people around me and lots of

5:31 other girls. And I was always comparing my

5:33 body to them and thinking, oh, well, you know, I'm the one that

5:35 needs to lose weight because I've been told that, but that

5:39 I'm is in a position of power and authority.

5:41 So therefore, you know, I, I don't look like that.

5:44 So that's what I need to look. Like you said, you like had a

5:47 different image of your body. Do you remember what that was?

5:53 I think it was just an awareness of it, awareness of it Like you

5:59 don't, you don't look at your body and think there's anything

6:02 wrong with it. Yeah, it's just there.

6:05 It's just a vessel that you've bought your soul is in and

6:08 you're enjoying yourself. And, and I think that comment is

6:11 kind of suddenly made me look at my body in a different way and

6:13 think there's something wrong with it.

6:15 Like it needs changing. The way it is isn't how it

6:18 should be. And I just think in my sort of,

6:21 I was only 8 years old when that happened.

6:23 So my young mind, I was just like, OK, so that's, that's a

6:27 message that I, you know, affected me.

6:29 And I actually didn't really realise that that had affected

6:33 me until I actually went through a recovery for my eating

6:36 disorder and a lot of work with a therapist.

6:38 And, you know, I did a lot of meditation and, you know, I'm

6:41 quite a spiritual person. So I, I kind of use other, other

6:44 ways to kind of understand like with the root of where this is

6:47 coming from. And I'm not saying that that was

6:50 the root, but that was definitely a thing that happened

6:54 to me, that contributed to how I saw my body and perceived

6:58 myself, having myself for the people.

7:02 So you had that eating disorder. When did the light bulb turn on?

7:08 When did you realize, oh, there's something wrong?

7:10 Yeah, so I guess like quite early on because, well, I was at

7:15 university when it really started to kind of manifest

7:18 after I left home first time and I I stopped swimming, I stopped

7:22 doing triathlons, I stopped doing all the exercise that I've

7:24 been doing for the last 10 years.

7:26 And I just kind of had enough of it really.

7:28 And I just wanted to like enjoy myself and.

7:31 And I lost a lot of weight really quickly because at that

7:33 age you do anyway, your body's still changing.

7:35 And because I had been very fit, I think, you know, just stopping

7:39 exercising, my body just changed.

7:41 And people would comment and be like, Oh my God, you look

7:44 amazing. Like you're also playing.

7:48 And then like, I, you know, I sort of had all these times

7:52 where I was feeling, you know, very uncomfortable, my body.

7:55 And I would like restrict and then like people would, you

7:58 know, say like, why aren't you eating and all this kind of

8:00 stuff? And then I would eat in front of

8:02 people because I felt like people were watching me.

8:05 And then I would. Yeah, just to shut you up.

8:07 Yeah, exactly. And pretend because you you

8:09 don't want, because it's a secret.

8:11 Like you want it to, you want it, you want it to be that.

8:14 I wanted to be skinny. Like I didn't want to not be

8:16 skinny. So I kind of hid it and it was

8:19 my secret. And then I would like purge

8:22 sometimes because I get this anxiety about the fact that I

8:26 eat and stuff. So, yeah.

8:29 And so I guess around that time, you know, my friends were like,

8:32 oh, do you know, you need to see a therapist?

8:33 And I had a boyfriend at the time and he was like, you know,

8:36 I'm worried about you. And, and it was at that point

8:39 that I, it became like even more secret because I, I went to one

8:43 therapy session and I was just like, I'm not, I don't want to

8:46 do this. So I wasn't ready.

8:48 I was very young. I just, I was happy with how I

8:51 was. I was just like, I just want to

8:52 enjoy myself at least basically. So yeah, even though I kind of

8:57 knew it was behaviour that was damaging, I didn't want to

9:00 accept that. Yeah.

9:01 Did you think if you correct it, you're going to be fat again?

9:05 Yeah, that's the fear that is. The fear is like you associate

9:08 like, and to be honest, like I was never fat.

9:10 Like I've never been fat in my life.

9:12 I was like. Wasn't even that.

9:14 I wasn't, I was a normal like young, young girl, you know, I

9:18 had to like puppy fat, I guess you call it.

9:20 But that's a normal thing. And, you know, my body was

9:24 changing. I was growing breasts and, you

9:27 know, having my period and all those hormones and stuff like

9:29 that. And you know, I've never be, I

9:32 was big because I've, I've quite tall, you know, I'm like 5 or 8

9:35 and I, I was a swimmer. So, you know, it was like you've

9:38 got big shoulders and things. You needed the muscle to propel

9:42 you. Well, exactly.

9:43 But all of these messages like contributed to me feeling like

9:47 this discomfort in my body that people were commenting on how I

9:50 looked and you know what? I was what I was presenting as a

9:54 physical being. And that just kind of then made

9:58 me think I need to be different. And so, yeah.

10:02 But it wasn't really until I admitted to myself that I needed

10:06 to change. Because when other people tell

10:08 you to change, you're not doing it for yourself, you're doing it

10:12 for them, or you're doing because you feel guilt or

10:14 whatever you want to please others.

10:16 But actually, you know, the time that it really made a difference

10:20 to me was when I decided that I didn't want to live with this

10:24 behaviour anymore. I'd had enough of it and I

10:27 wanted to take steps to help myself and that that decision

10:32 didn't come to me until I was actually 39.

10:36 So I lived with this kind of behaviour in cycles.

10:39 It came in cycles for about 20 years of my.

10:42 Life. Wow, that's a long time it.

10:44 Is a long time and you know, I it wasn't always really bad.

10:49 You know, there would be times in my life where I was like

10:51 really happy and content and it would that the behaviours would

10:54 kind of go away. But then I ever went through a

10:56 period of stress in my life or difficult times, that would be

11:00 the behaviour that would come back because it was like a, you

11:03 know, it was like a familiar friend.

11:05 It's, it's a coping mechanism. You know, if I focus on that and

11:09 my weight and what I'm eating, I don't have to think about this

11:13 other stuff that's happening that I'm feeling really bad

11:15 about, or I don't have to think about an emotion that I'm

11:17 feeling like I don't want to feel or whatever it is, you

11:20 know, so and it's, yeah, you're just reinforcing that pathway,

11:24 that behavioural pathway in your brain every time you do it.

11:27 So and I, I just kind of thought it was normal.

11:31 I thought it was what all women did, to be honest with you, for

11:33 a long time. I told that anyway, you know, it

11:36 was, it was that kind of, you lie to yourself, don't you?

11:39 You know, we're brilliant lying to ourselves.

11:43 Yeah. Only at that point I decided,

11:45 and it was actually during COVID that I was living in Bangkok.

11:49 I was teaching out there and I was that there was something on

11:53 the beat. I was listening to BBC News and

11:54 they said something about people gaining weight over locked out.

11:57 And that just sent me into like massive stress.

12:00 I was like, Oh my God, I can't put weight on cycle of like, you

12:05 know, being really obsessed with everything, like exercising all

12:08 the time. And it was another coping

12:11 mechanism for the situation which we were all in, which was

12:14 pretty scary and nobody knew what was going on.

12:17 And I thought, I'm just exhausted right by this, this, I

12:21 can't keep putting all my energy into this all the time.

12:23 And I just had a moment where I was just like, am I going to

12:26 keep doing this for the rest of my life or am I going to change

12:29 it? Like I have a choice, like I

12:31 don't have doing it. And I decided to seek some help.

12:36 And I found it very hard to even say eating disorder at the

12:40 beginning that I felt so uncomfortable about it.

12:44 And the therapist just helped me to kind of gradually, yeah,

12:48 accept it and open up about it and then understand it and put

12:53 new, new thought processes in my mind really, which is how you

12:57 make change. And it probably to 2 1/2 years

13:02 probably in total to kind of get to a point where I didn't need,

13:07 like, therapy to continually be, you know, going through

13:13 everything. Yeah.

13:15 So, but it's still that, I mean, it's, you know, I still can

13:18 notice my brain sometimes, you know, a thought will come to me

13:22 and I'm an old. That's an old thought.

13:25 What kind of thought would it be?

13:29 Something like I guess, Oh God, I haven't like exercised today

13:35 or I haven't, you know, I've eaten like a burger.

13:37 Oh my God, you know, tomorrow I need to tomorrow I need to eat

13:40 less like that type of thing. So but now I'm like, no, my body

13:45 needs needed that. Like it felt good.

13:48 Like I'm, you know, I treat myself with compassion now and

13:52 I, the way I speak to myself is different.

13:56 And, you know, I've done, you know, a lot of work and I

13:59 started it in 2020. It's been kind of five years now

14:03 since I began that process. And there's been many, many

14:06 different things that I've done which have changed the way my

14:11 brain works in that way. Yeah, I think that's the the

14:15 mindset is very important because we I see our

14:18 relationship with food, it's very all or nothing in a lot of

14:23 circles or in a lot of my friends is very all or nothing.

14:27 They go all out, go crazy, eat whatever is in the fridge, and

14:32 then they cut everything out or cut this entire group of food

14:38 out. Or they eat or not eat for not

14:41 the right reason. Yeah, absolutely.

14:43 Yeah. That's very much a behaviour

14:45 that comes from diet culture. You know, it's it's and that's

14:50 what leads to eating disorders in a lot of people is that binge

14:54 restrict mentality that there's like you have to compensate for

15:00 overeating by under eating. But actually what I've learned

15:03 is that your body has its own mechanisms for that.

15:06 Don't have to control it with this body will naturally get you

15:11 to eat more if you're hungry and it will naturally get you to eat

15:15 less if you're not hungry. And all that doing the binge

15:18 restrict cycle does is it actually damages your

15:21 metabolism. You're constantly in this like,

15:24 you know, overeating, overconsumption and then

15:28 underconsumption. And it it really confuses the

15:32 body because when you food, your metabolic rate gets slower.

15:35 When you eat more food, your metabolic rate gets higher.

15:37 So actually, if you're constantly in this like yo yoing

15:41 all the time, you end up with metabolic dysfunction and you're

15:45 more likely to have things like insulin resistance and type 2

15:47 diabetes later in life if you've been a chronic Dieter and

15:53 actually having it's a form of control, like you feel like

15:58 you're more in control if you're.

16:00 Doing their diet. Yeah, by doing a diet, exactly.

16:04 Yeah. But actually when I work with

16:05 clients who have had this kind of issue, what they realise is

16:09 actually if they eat just, you know, like regularly and they

16:13 eat at the same time every day and they have, you know,

16:15 breakfast, lunch and dinner or whatever it is that suits their

16:18 body, they actually feel more in control because they don't have

16:21 this like ravenous hunger that you get from restricting.

16:24 Yeah, yeah. It's that that leads to the fear

16:27 of weight gain. And so if people can come to a

16:31 more balanced place with food and, you know, they don't

16:36 overeat because they're not so hungry, need to restrict, which

16:40 makes them more hungry. Do you see what I mean?

16:42 Actually gives them more control.

16:45 They always say that to me, that I can't believe I feel more in

16:47 control now that I'm eating like this than I used to feel when I

16:51 was restricting. Yeah, it's almost like they they

16:54 didn't have the control. The food had the control.

16:56 Yeah, But it's actually the body that has the control because

17:00 your body will override this. So, you know, your body is like

17:05 driving hunger. If it's, you know, the hormones

17:08 in your body will make you hungry.

17:09 And the way that that happens is if your cells are like empty,

17:13 basically, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're low on your

17:16 blood sugar, you know, your hunger hormones increase.

17:19 So it makes you more hungry. So you can't override it with

17:22 the brain forever. And when you have an eating

17:25 disorder, you know, you spend a lot of time feeling very hungry.

17:28 And it is a battle of will to be like I have to, I'm not going to

17:33 eat. I'm not going to eat.

17:34 And you will do anything to avoid that.

17:38 And it's not, you know, it's quite.

17:39 Difficult. Yeah, I had a very brief moment

17:44 of that. It was about, I'd say maybe six

17:47 months. So I moved to Japan when I was

17:49 in like my late 20s, but things were not very easy.

17:53 I had some relationship problem back home.

17:56 I remember I think I was, I had a mild eating disorder because

18:00 there'll be. So I was restricting partly

18:03 because of budget. I didn't want to run out of

18:05 money before the end of how long I was supposed to be there.

18:09 I remember because I was a person.

18:11 I was a sweets person. I love cakes, desserts, and they

18:15 have all these beautiful cakes in Japan.

18:18 And I remember looking at the cake and I thought, well, if I

18:22 eat it, I'm just going to get fat, so might as well not.

18:26 So I did think I had about six months of that type of thinking.

18:31 And I did lose a lot of weight when my family picked me up at

18:35 the airport. My sister said you have just

18:38 your head. Like, it's just head.

18:41 There's nothing like, you're so skinny.

18:43 Like they couldn't really recognize me when I went there.

18:46 Yeah. Yeah, but that is, you know, we

18:48 we associate food with comfort because we're babies, you know,

18:53 we get fed when we're crying. You know, it's a way that we

18:56 bond with our mothers, whether we have bottle fed or breastfed.

18:59 And you know, it's a pacification like when when

19:02 we're upset, we get pacified with food a lot of the time.

19:05 So from from the moment of birth, we connect food and

19:08 comfort together. So when you're in a situation

19:11 where you feel a bit lonely, like you, you know, you were in

19:14 a difficult place where you know you had relationship issues, you

19:18 were living in a country that you weren't from.

19:20 And all those things can kind of make you feel insecure.

19:24 And food is a really easy way to comfort yourself.

19:28 It's almost like a self soothing kind of behavior.

19:32 And overeating and under eating are both the same.

19:36 The root of it is the same, it's just that the behaviour is

19:39 different. You know, some people will

19:41 overeat to get that feeling of compensation and some people

19:44 will under eat to get that feeling of, of compensation.

19:47 So still the same, you know, still you're using food as a

19:52 control mechanism or a coping mechanism.

19:55 It's just that the behaviour around it is different.

19:56 So and I would say that most women that I meet.

20:01 And then actually as well, but more, more women have had some

20:04 sort of issue around food at some point in their lives.

20:09 It's common in 20, in your 20s, I think because you're still

20:12 finding out who you are. You're maybe not very secure.

20:14 You're a bit more like, you know, you're moving around more

20:16 and exploring. But it, you know, it can stay

20:20 stick around, you know, it can stay with you.

20:22 So yeah, I would say that that's that's quite a common thing that

20:28 I hear actually. And this was the reason why I

20:32 wanted to recover properly is because I wanted to be able to

20:36 speak to other women about this and say it's not just you Like

20:39 there is, you know, millions of women out there probably

20:43 experiencing or have experienced the same thing.

20:46 And well, what I realised is when I was vulnerable about my

20:50 issues and I spoke to people openly about it, that enabled

20:53 them to also do the same. Oh, like sharing their own

20:57 issue. Exactly.

20:58 Yeah. And because otherwise you think,

21:00 Oh my God, it's just me. Like I'm going through all this

21:02 stuff and nobody else understands it.

21:04 But as soon as you open up to somebody about it and they go,

21:07 Oh my God, I was exactly the same or.

21:08 Like it was me. Yeah, exactly.

21:11 That's main. So, you know, I found it really

21:13 hard to talk about in the beginning, but now I talk about

21:16 it all the time, you know, So it's and it's obviously part of

21:20 what I do now to help other people.

21:22 So yeah, I'm being like free in your mind around food is like

21:27 such a liberating thing. Yeah, and now I definitely eat a

21:32 lot more than before. Maybe when I was a teenager I

21:35 ate a lot, but now I definitely eat a lot more than 10 years

21:40 ago. But my weight is not all that

21:42 different and I, I actually think I have more tone than 10

21:46 years ago. So I think there's something

21:48 that we can educate people about eating properly.

21:52 It's not only you're not only eating salad, it's about eating

21:56 the right combination of things, making sure you have different

21:59 nutrients. So but I am more restrictive

22:04 when it comes to don't go overboard.

22:07 Like I'll eat sweets, candy, chocolate, whatever.

22:11 I just don't eat five pieces in one sitting or I don't eat every

22:16 single day. So what do you think the

22:18 difference between mindful eating and restrictive eating?

22:23 So when I sort of after I'd gone through my recovery, I did a

22:28 course in intuitive eating to become an intuitive.

22:32 And part of that is, you know, mindfulness, like mindful eating

22:36 is one of the kind of principles of intuitive eating.

22:39 And, you know, restrictive, the restrictive mindset is you're

22:44 not listening to your body. It's a mindset, it's a your

22:47 brain. It's try your ego actually

22:49 probably is trying to control what your behaviour is.

22:53 And it's an illusion, you know, be able to control that is a is

22:57 an illusion. And over time, you can't, you

23:00 can't continually do that. Whereas mindful eating is

23:05 learning to sit with your body, feel your body, feel its signals

23:13 and interpret what they mean as well is we live in a in an

23:19 environment and a lifestyle now that cuts us off pretty much

23:23 from here, you know? I think so.

23:26 Yeah, we sit at screens all day and I spent I think I was at my

23:29 screen for like 12 hours yesterday.

23:31 I just last night I just could not switch my brain off like it

23:34 was really. Hard, yeah.

23:36 This morning, that's why I went out for a run because I was

23:38 like, I need to come back into my body.

23:39 I need to feel my body again. And I think, you know, if you're

23:45 not in that way of thinking, if you're not aware of it, then you

23:50 can end up not being able to feel what your body is telling

23:54 you. You know, you're like a very,

23:55 very wise Organism. I was like ancestral and ancient

24:00 wisdom in it. And we're very cut off from

24:03 that. So if we can kind of come back

24:05 into our body and start to feel it again, we can listen to its

24:09 signals. So hunger, Sir, tiredness,

24:13 stress, anger and emotion that, you know, whatever it is that

24:17 we're feeling and we can go, OK, yeah.

24:19 Because quite often we might be like, I'm hungry.

24:22 That's the automatic thing that comes.

24:23 But actually, you might not be hungry.

24:25 You might be feeling frustrated. You might, you might just be

24:28 tired, you know. So if we can kind of distinguish

24:32 between what those things are, we're much better at being able

24:35 to nourish our bodies in the right way.

24:38 And when we're eating, we need to be present with that process

24:43 as well. So mindful eating is all about

24:45 being present with the process. Sit with the food.

24:49 You look at the food, you smell it, you notice what your body is

24:53 doing in response to that. You know the question starts

24:56 like way before you eat. All.

24:58 Your hormones being released, your, you know, saliva is being

25:02 produced. There's lots of things going on

25:03 in the body before you eat food and you know, and then we sort

25:07 of sit down to eat the food and we're watching a screen and

25:10 completely mindlessly. Yeah, that happened so many

25:13 times when I'm like having a meeting or something.

25:16 Yeah, Watching something. Yeah.

25:18 So if we can like come back and and respect food for, you know,

25:24 the nourishment that it is, rather than it being like a

25:26 secondary thing or maybe even a third thing that we just have to

25:31 do to kind of keep us going or just, you know, do without

25:34 thought. So I'm not saying that every

25:37 meal you're going to sit there and have this whole process of

25:39 mindful eating because it's not not practical.

25:43 But, you know, once a week, give yourself a meal where you are

25:46 sitting with, you know, you can be with other people, but

25:49 without conversation, without a phone, without a screen, you

25:53 know, just without music, even just completely with the food

25:56 and with the process. And, you know, put it in your

25:58 mouth, taste it, notice what's happening, like swallow it.

26:01 How does it feel inside your body?

26:03 Like is this satisfying you or is there something else going on

26:06 and you know it? It's can, it can be a really

26:09 beautiful process to do that off the space for that.

26:13 And if you do that once a week, it will affect the rest of the

26:16 time you eat as well. Yeah, yeah.

26:18 Start to go, Oh yeah, OK, I'm really enjoying this or Oh my

26:20 God, I'm eating this and not even thinking about it.

26:23 And the best way to change your relationship with food is with

26:26 awareness, awareness of your behaviours.

26:29 Because a lot of the way we eat is conditioning.

26:32 And it's conditioning that, you know, we received as children

26:36 and young people when we, we had no choice about who was around

26:40 us. And that conditioning is driving

26:43 90% of our behaviour all automatic.

26:46 We're not even thinking about it.

26:48 So bringing that into your awareness, your conscious

26:50 awareness is the best way to start making a change.

26:54 And you know, I think also we need to remember that food is

26:59 it's giving you health food and body weight and what bodies look

27:03 like. It's not just something that

27:06 adds weight. Do you want to be healthy?

27:10 Like that's the question you need to ask yourself.

27:12 Do I want my health? You know, I often say that

27:16 health is our most precious asset, but we don't realize that

27:19 until it's gone. Don't realize how important

27:22 health is until we don't have our health for some reason.

27:25 You know, you get a flu or you know, you break your leg or

27:29 whatever it is and it suddenly stops you from living the life

27:31 you want to live. Like, don't wait to get to that

27:35 point with your health to make a change with your food, like

27:37 actually do it now. Start to make better choices and

27:41 think about is this food going to give me the the nourishment

27:44 that it needs, that my body needs right now or am I trying

27:48 to satisfy another hunger like an emotional hunger or something

27:52 like that. It's another thing to that I

27:55 teach people is like, are you emotionally hungry or are you

27:58 physically hungry? Yeah, distinguish.

28:01 Yeah, I'd like to dive into intuitive eating a little more

28:04 because I do that to a certain degree because I feel like

28:08 sometimes I crave certain things for a meal because my body needs

28:13 that. Sometimes I really wanted a very

28:16 particular, OK, I really wanted a broccoli dish today.

28:19 Or sometimes I really feel like I really need some food.

28:23 And I think that is those are the signals.

28:25 And a lot of people, they practice whatever diets that

28:30 they're following and that's not what your body is craving at

28:33 all. And I also read in a book called

28:35 Ultra Processed People, I just came out a couple of years and

28:40 there was an experiment that they did with just babies.

28:44 Yeah, it's very young age. And then they have different

28:46 things in front of different food in front of them.

28:49 And then for the baby, that's, that is needing a certain

28:53 nutrient that is present in the cod liver oil or something like

28:56 that. The baby naturally reach for the

28:59 the oil until maybe a couple of days later he or she didn't need

29:04 it anymore and the baby picked some other food.

29:09 And I think that is really interesting.

29:10 Not a lot of people is aware of that.

29:12 So how would you teach someone to paying attention to the

29:16 signals to start practicing intuitive eating?

29:19 Yeah. So I think one of the most

29:22 effective ways to to begin that process is through body

29:27 scanning. So a body scan meditation.

29:29 So this is something that I talk my clients through and I, I sort

29:32 of guide them through it. And you're like feeling like

29:37 every single part of your body. So you feel like your little

29:39 toes, you know, and, and you go through that whole process and

29:43 then and then you can kind of like, OK, so I can feel like

29:47 what's happening in my abdomen now, you know, I can feel like,

29:50 am I hungry? Am I physically hungry at what

29:53 signals I got? And it's very much a, you know,

29:57 it takes time to develop that the the 6th or 7th sense called

30:03 interception, which ability, the sensitivity to feel your body.

30:08 And that's what I believe has been cut off.

30:11 A lot of us have cut off from, you know, if you're, if you

30:15 exercise and you're into, you know, some of those kind of

30:18 things, it's probably less of an issue.

30:20 But for the people who are kind of sitting down in front of

30:22 screens a lot, I think that's definitely something that that

30:25 can happen is they, they stop to feel their bodies.

30:29 And I would say, you know, to, to learn about what the 10

30:33 principles of intuitive eating are and look through them.

30:37 And I, and I do this, you know, I get them to look through them

30:40 and I'm like, which ones you already doing?

30:42 Because we're all doing some of them.

30:44 It's not like we're all just completely oblivious to what

30:47 we're eating. You know, I think everybody,

30:49 even people that are in really bad health, everybody has an

30:52 awareness that that what the food is eating and what's doing

30:55 to them. And it is also a case of trial

30:59 and error. You know, you eat a food.

31:01 Oh, I don't feel good after that.

31:03 Or you eat your food and you're like, I feel really energized.

31:06 I'm like, you know, that's exactly what I needed.

31:07 Like you just described. Really need to eat some fruit

31:10 today, you know. But when I was going through my

31:13 recovery, I used to have that with a beef burger.

31:15 I'd be like, I really need to eat a beef burger because I

31:18 bought you going. I need energy.

31:20 You know, I was also vegan for quite a long time, which was a

31:23 whole other kind of reason for me to restrict food.

31:27 It was also for ethical reasons as well.

31:30 But what I realised is that my body was going give me like

31:33 more. I was constantly denying it.

31:36 And that was when I had problems with my menstrual cycle and

31:39 periods and all that kind of stuff.

31:42 And so, you know, you do just go through a process of trial and

31:46 error. And you know, I'm not saying

31:49 that the, the intuitive eating is a set of principles.

31:51 It's not like strict guidelines because complete opposite of

31:56 what, what you know, that's diet culture.

31:58 Diet culture is strict. It's like, eat this, you eat in

32:01 this window, you eat these number of calories, you cut this

32:04 out. It's very, you know, it's very

32:06 masculine and it's energy dieting.

32:08 Whereas intuitive eating is like more feminine approach because

32:11 it's like, how do I feel today? Maybe maybe I'm like, I really

32:15 want to eat a doughnut. Allow yourself to do that

32:19 because if you don't you, you're then kind of going, you know, I

32:24 really stopped. I really wanted to eat that

32:25 doughnut but I didn't let myself.

32:27 You're risking like going into more of a binging behaviour then

32:29 because you're like, well, my body's craving energy so I'm

32:33 going to eat 3 doughnuts 3 days later.

32:35 Do you know what I mean? So it can kind of become more

32:39 difficult if you become more restrictive.

32:42 And that's why diets don't work. They restrict and nobody wants

32:47 to live in those very strict boundaries for the rest of their

32:50 life. I've had friends that sit around

32:52 doing keto. I feel amazing and, and like

32:55 you're never going to stick to that forever when you're never

32:57 going to not eat a cake again in your life.

32:59 Like you've got 60 years of life left, like you're never going to

33:03 eat a cake. You know, it's, it's just that

33:05 kind of mentality. And so I really try and help

33:07 people, even though I work with people who are, you know, living

33:10 with metabolic conditions like diabetes and obesity and fatty

33:14 liver disease disease. I want them to get to a place

33:17 where they can still eat the foods they enjoy.

33:20 But they're doing it with awareness and with understanding

33:23 of what's happening in their body.

33:26 And they've shifted and they've learned throughout the program

33:29 that I do. So therefore they, they can't go

33:33 back because they've got too much knowledge, then kind of,

33:36 you know, go back. So yeah, you've got to be

33:39 realistic as well. Like, you know, I really love

33:43 chocolate. I love chocolate desserts.

33:45 And I don't stop myself from eating them now because if, if

33:48 I'm like, I really want to have that, you know, it's usually

33:51 because, you know, it's been maybe a week since I've had

33:53 anything like that. And I'm like, I really fancy it.

33:56 And that's fine because you have a bit and you go, actually I've

33:59 had enough. Now.

34:00 If you deny yourself it, you want it more.

34:02 You know, it's like prophecy. That's something, isn't it?

34:06 As soon as you restrict something, you can't stop

34:08 thinking about it. And that's what you want.

34:10 So if you, if you remove that restriction and say one of the

34:14 principles is unconditional permission to eat in insurance

34:17 of eating. So you're giving yourself

34:19 permission to eat whatever you feel like eating

34:22 unconditionally. Not with like, am I going to eat

34:25 this chocolate dessert? But then tomorrow I'm going to

34:28 restrict again, that's traditional.

34:31 So it's learning that as well as a principle.

34:34 And there's ways to kind of embed those behaviours.

34:38 And it, you know, it's a, it's a process that takes time and you

34:40 have to do each step in a, in a particular way to come to a

34:45 place where you feel comfortable with allowing yourself to eat

34:48 the foods that you're actually really craving.

34:51 Yeah. How do we draw the line between?

34:54 Because unconditionally unrestrictive eating.

34:58 That sounds like slippery slope on the surface.

35:02 Of course, there are other principles in the intuitive

35:05 eating. Yeah.

35:06 Like, how do we draw the line? Because that is music to a lot

35:09 of people's ears. I could eat whatever I want.

35:11 That's also like a lot of the diets, the fad diets.

35:15 Yeah, that's what they claim. Like, you can eat unlimited

35:19 amounts of meat and you won't gain weight.

35:22 All that. Yeah.

35:23 Like, how do we be careful about that?

35:26 Yeah, that's a really good question.

35:28 So like I said at the beginning, you know, the body has its own

35:31 mechanisms for kind of keeping you fed and sustained.

35:37 You know, if you are living with obesity or being very

35:41 overweight, then you are going to need to make changes.

35:46 You're not going to be able to just eat what you want when you

35:48 want because that's clearly not been serving you to this point

35:52 health. So you've got to balance that

35:56 with, you know, understanding nutrition, understanding the

36:01 health goals that you want to achieve and then bringing your

36:05 behaviour and your knowledge around food in line with that.

36:10 There's also, you know, a lot of a misconception around intuitive

36:16 eating. Intuitive eating isn't just

36:17 eating whatever you want whenever you want to it.

36:20 That isn't what it is. And somebody else said to me

36:23 once, oh, isn't intuitive eating just feeling hungry and eating

36:26 then? And like, yes, it is.

36:29 But if it was that simple, everybody would just be doing it

36:32 already and we wouldn't have any dietary related diseases, You

36:35 know, So it's every single person is individual and has

36:40 their own individual background with food, their own emotional

36:43 connection to food and bringing their own awareness into like

36:49 why they're eating the way they are.

36:52 Is that like why you binging on crisps when you get home from

36:56 work? And a lot of the time it's

36:58 because people don't eat enough during the daytime.

37:01 You know, they wake up, they skip breakfast because they're

37:04 intermittent fasting. They get to lunch and they go.

37:07 I'm going to have a salad. 2. 100 calories and then they get

37:10 home at 5:00 and they're like starving hungry and they've got

37:14 like the whole fridge and the whole of the cupboards to to,

37:17 you know, feed themselves with and they open the cupboard and

37:19 they just start binging. That's because you haven't

37:23 nourished yourself in the daytime.

37:25 The daytime is the active period of the day where you're, you

37:28 know, your brain is working, you're at work, you're out,

37:31 whatever you're doing and you need to give your body fuel.

37:35 Like that's what food is. It gives you fuel to be able to

37:38 perform in the best way you can. And by restricting in the

37:41 daytime, you're, you're creating a, a binging behaviour in the

37:46 evening because you get home, maybe you're feeling lonely,

37:51 maybe there's nobody at home to greet you.

37:53 Maybe your dog just died. You know, whatever it is, you

37:57 emotion. And then you're like, food is a

38:00 comfort. So you eat food and then you go

38:03 into that, Oh my God, last night I ate so much food today I need

38:07 to restrict. And you're back in that cycle

38:09 again. Whereas intuitive eating teaches

38:11 you to recognize if you're emotionally hungry, like I feel

38:17 I'm this, this feeling is not physical hunger.

38:19 This is emotional hunger. I'm going to ring my friend up

38:22 and have a cry on the phone or I'm going to, you know, do

38:26 whatever some something else that gives you the emotional

38:30 connection. There are lots of other ways to

38:32 manage emotional hunger that don't involve food.

38:35 And actually you need to reach for something that doesn't

38:39 involve food, that gives you usually it's a human connection

38:42 that we're that we're looking for.

38:45 So yeah, it's understanding that and recognizing your own

38:49 behaviour and saying this isn't behaviour that I want to keep

38:52 doing. It's not the health I want.

38:57 What you said is very important because I was wondering how can

39:01 someone who just listen to this? And I'm sure deep down everyone

39:06 knows that they have this unhealthy relationship with who?

39:11 Like are I'm just eating because it's there or like I really want

39:14 to eat this whole bag of crisps. So deep down everyone knows.

39:18 But what would be something that they can start asking themselves

39:22 if they want to address it? And you answered it even before

39:26 I ask there. We go.

39:29 OK, so I would like to do a rapid fire round of questions.

39:34 OK, go for it. So really quick answers, OK,

39:40 what's your ultimate comfort food?

39:43 Oh God, that's a really difficult one.

39:46 I think. I mean, it's going to be a bit

39:47 weird, but it's a casserole that my mum used to make with Ansel's

39:53 and chorizo, which is like a Spanish sausage.

39:56 So that just really reminds me of being young and my mum

39:59 feeding that in the winter. So that feels like.

40:02 Yeah, yeah. Comforting.

40:04 Nourishing. Exactly.

40:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, next one.

40:08 What's a healthy food trend that you know is rubbish?

40:15 Perceived to be healthy I would say the keto diet.

40:19 No, you're not the first person I said yeah, I was talking to

40:23 another health coach. Oh, really?

40:24 She does the same thing? Yeah, it's definitely not.

40:28 It's not sustainable. It's not good for your

40:30 metabolism. Living on ketones for the rest

40:32 of your life is not how we're designed to be.

40:35 So yeah. And it's also not good for the

40:38 planet to be eating all that meat.

40:41 Yeah, as well, it's not good for your wallet either.

40:44 No, absolutely. And you're not good for your gut

40:47 health. You know, gut microbiome really

40:49 needs to have a lot of fibre and you know, you're kind of cutting

40:54 that out really when you're on the keto diet mostly.

40:57 So, yeah, OK. What's a food that you used to

41:02 avoid but now love? Oh God, I was going to say a

41:06 beef burger, but I don't like love a beef burger.

41:09 I just, I just feel like I need it.

41:13 But yeah, probably that and probably cakes.

41:16 I would say you can actually, you know, if I do feel like

41:20 eating a beef burger, I will potentially make my own as well.

41:24 You know, what's in it then? Yeah, You know, I try not to eat

41:28 too much meat because just because of like, the ethical

41:31 reasons and stuff. But I've also realized that my

41:33 body actually really does need it.

41:35 And I feel a lot more energetic when I have meat in my diet.

41:39 So they have it maybe like once or twice a week now.

41:42 Yeah, and I also notice if we make it at home ourself, it

41:47 doesn't even need to be from scratch.

41:49 Everything you can start easy like order the home kit, meal

41:52 kits, delivery because the amount of salt and fat and

41:56 everything that you put in it is definitely way less than when

42:00 you get it. For sure, yeah.

42:01 And you can put you know what like your own spices and things

42:04 in it if you want to things like that.

42:06 So, you know, and I, I think with meat, like for me, I had,

42:11 you know, like I said before, like hormonal problems, and that

42:14 was partly because I was exercising too much and not

42:16 eating enough protein. And so having a bit of meat now,

42:20 you know, helps me. I'm 44 as well.

42:22 So, you know, my menstrual cycle is, you know, gradually shifting

42:25 and obviously entering perimenopause over the next few

42:28 years and stuff. So, you know, for me, I want to

42:30 make sure I'm getting my protein intake.

42:33 So. Yeah.

42:34 Yeah, get yourself prepared. For that, yeah, exactly.

42:37 Yeah. OK, if you were to pick one word

42:42 to describe your philosophy of food or healthy eating, what

42:46 would it be? Freedom.

42:48 OK. Yeah.

42:49 I think the other word that comes to me is flexibility.

42:52 But you said one word, so I said freedom.

42:55 Yeah. I think, you know, through my

42:57 own journey, that's been the key to being able to enjoy my life,

43:02 really. Because, you know, when you have

43:03 this obsession with food, like, it really takes the joy out of

43:06 life. It was food is like pleasure,

43:09 isn't it? You know, we celebrate with it.

43:12 We, you know, we have like beautiful meals with we love and

43:16 all of that stuff. And I love cooking as well.

43:20 So yeah. So I now feel like I have this

43:22 complete freedom around food that I didn't have for a very

43:26 long time. Yeah, I know couples who broke

43:28 up because they're eating values are not the same when it comes

43:32 to. Food.

43:33 All right. Last one, if you were to tell

43:38 yourself, your younger self a message about food, what would

43:42 you tell your younger self? I would say to her that food is

43:47 self-care and an act of self love.

43:50 Well said. Thank you very much, Sammy.

43:52 My pleasure. This is a message that a lot of

43:55 us need to hear. But listening to yourself.

43:58 So the recurring theme in Mind Blend is clarity.

44:03 Like understanding yourself. And this is 1 aspect that we

44:07 don't all practice. Like we are not mindful of our

44:12 body, our actions, we're just doing.

44:15 So I think this is really important.

44:17 And I kind of preach this to my family here and there.

44:23 A lot of the things is it's the all or nothing.

44:25 I always say it doesn't have to be.

44:27 So all or nothing, all or nothing.

44:29 Don't overdo it, but don't completely cut it out.

44:32 Yeah, that's part of the intuitive.

44:34 Reason it is, yeah, Absolutely, yeah.

44:38 All right, I'll leave your information in the show notes so

44:41 people can check out your website.

44:43 I know you have your own podcast as well.

44:45 A lot of interesting message there.

44:47 It combines science and there's also spirituality and

44:50 psychology. So definitely check it out.

44:53 Yeah. Well, thank you very much.

44:55 My pleasure, it's been great, really enjoyed it.

44:58 Great, thanks for listening to this episode of Mind One.

45:04 If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to follow and share

45:07 it with anyone who needs to hear it.

45:09 And let's keep the conversation going.

45:10 Connect with me on LinkedIn or leave me a comment.

45:14 Until next time, stay curious, keep exploring, and let's

45:17 continue to burn our minds and discover what's possible.