Your Voice is a Superpower. Use it to Win - with Navin Jaitly

0:00 How do you get into the customer's world and how do you

0:03 generally come from a place of service?

0:05 Because I think when you do that, you've got a much better

0:07 chance and people trust you more.

0:12 So here's something that may be really obvious.

0:15 Speaking is something that we do every day.

0:18 I'm speaking right now on this podcast.

0:21 But not everyone speaks the same way.

0:24 Some people definitely seem to be able to do it easier.

0:27 They're more powerful, they get their points across in a much

0:30 more confident and convincing way.

0:33 Why? So today on Mind Blend, I'm

0:36 joined by Navin Jaylee, a high performance coach who teaches

0:40 people how to speak with clarity, confidence and real

0:44 authority. Welcome to the show Mind Blend.

0:49 I'm your host, Karen Chong, and I'll be diving into the minds of

0:52 incredible people, each an expert in their very own way.

0:56 Together, we'll uncover insights and share ideas so you can be

1:00 inspired and empowered to navigate your own unique journey

1:03 in life. Ready to get curious and

1:06 discover what's possible? Let's blend.

1:11 Hi Navin, welcome to Mine Blend. Hey, Karen, Yes, thank you for

1:15 having me. So as I know and as I've alluded

1:19 to, you're a confidence coach and award-winning speaker.

1:23 How did that all start? Yeah, sure, I can do it.

1:26 I can give you the, I'll give you the quick version of the

1:28 story. But basically I had a, I've had

1:31 a career in sales. So I was working in corporate

1:35 sales, you know, about 20 years ago I started and like most

1:39 people, I actually struggled at the beginning because sales

1:41 isn't an easy. Profession.

1:43 And I didn't really have much experience in that.

1:45 So I started there and I struggled and I basically was

1:50 going to get like one of the jobs I was working in.

1:53 I was going to basically get fired because I hadn't really

1:56 got anything in my pipeline. I hadn't really got any sales on

1:59 the board. And I remember going to one

2:01 meeting and in the meeting it went the worst possible.

2:05 I was meeting ACEO and I was like, this was deal was really

2:08 needed to keep me on track or to keep me basically to keep me in

2:11 a job even. And it it didn't go well.

2:16 And he actually, he actually told me the meeting we're not

2:19 going to be buying from you. And it was the last meeting of

2:22 the day. And I remember going home that

2:23 night and thinking, you know, I might just had my resignation

2:26 notice in tomorrow. Like I'm not really enjoying

2:28 this sales game and I'm not doing very well in it.

2:32 And, and something in me just made me go actually, look, if I

2:35 quit this, you know, I might always be quitting things.

2:39 And you know, I think I've got some of the attributes needed to

2:42 be good at this. So let me sort it out.

2:44 And So what I decided to do is I just started to get into

2:47 personal development at the time.

2:49 And like I understood, you know, most people, not most people,

2:53 everybody was saying that if you want to be top in anything, you

2:55 need to invest in yourself. So I knew my company wasn't

2:59 going to invest in me because at the time I wasn't really

3:01 performing or performing to the level they needed me to.

3:04 So I decided out of my own money to invest in not just a sales

3:08 coach to help my selling skills, but I knew a lot of it was about

3:11 the game, the inner game, the mindset.

3:14 So I took out a mindset coach. Again, I'm giving you the

3:17 shorter version of the story. And within a short period of

3:20 time, I started doing a lot better.

3:22 And as a as the months went by, I started getting more and more

3:26 wins, better results, and eventually I became top of my

3:30 game. And for the rest of my sales

3:32 career, I was always in the top few percent of people.

3:36 So a few years ago, I wanted to start my entrepreneurial

3:39 journey. It was something I'd always

3:40 wanted to do. And it was one of those classics

3:43 During COVID. I thought now is the time to do

3:45 it. Yeah, that's a catalyst.

3:47 Yeah. It's a catalyst, right?

3:48 Yeah, Yeah, that time to reflect if you can actually now, now,

3:51 why not now? And I knew like I had got the

3:54 skills in sales. I, I really do my stuff there

3:57 and also what I'd done and I had invested a lot of my own

4:00 personal money and time in personal development, developing

4:04 myself. I did a performance coaching, a

4:07 qualification, which was, you know, a pretty intense 1.

4:10 So I also became a coach. And then I thought, look, let me

4:14 combine the two and let me coach and train people in the sales

4:18 world. So, you know, whether it's sales

4:21 or business development people in companies, that was my

4:24 original plan. But as I started my

4:26 entrepreneurial journey, what I realized is most other

4:29 entrepreneurs, they didn't know how to sell.

4:31 And that's why a lot of businesses, I mean, the stats in

4:34 the UK is one in two businesses fail every, some say three years

4:38 every, some say five years. And I'm a big believer that one

4:41 of the main reasons for that is they don't know how to sell,

4:44 right. So they've got a great product

4:45 or service, they're really good at what they do, but they're not

4:47 bringing the customers in. So basically for the last few

4:50 years, I've been helping sales and business development teams

4:53 within companies turn around their sales and also

4:56 entrepreneurs who want to get better at selling themselves.

4:59 And I've used that combination of skill set, sales skills,

5:03 influencing and speaking because speaking is one of the ways that

5:07 I myself have drummed up a lot of business.

5:10 I believe speaking is a great platform to get out there and

5:14 share your message. So if you're very impact driven,

5:16 which I am also as well, then speaking is great.

5:19 So really what I've been doing is providing the technical

5:23 skills in sales and speaking to my clients, but also a lot of

5:28 what I call the inner game of mindset.

5:30 So I have the tools and techniques of how to actually

5:33 get people what I call their most zone of genius, their most

5:37 flow state, where they're most confident.

5:39 OK. And that combination is what

5:42 gets results. And I think there's too much out

5:45 there that just focuses on one or the other.

5:47 I mean, you got a lot of mindset coaches out there which are

5:50 fantastic, but I think there is skillet.

5:53 I think there is still skill needed when it comes to

5:54 influence and sales and speaking.

5:57 And then you have a lot of people who teach the technical

5:59 stuff, which is very important, but they don't teach the inner

6:02 game of mindset. And what we do is what I do is I

6:05 do both. So that's how a nutshell of how

6:08 I got into. This.

6:09 So it's personal experience and then you yourself got some

6:12 coaching. Do you remember what were the

6:15 key problem areas when you were not really performing?

6:20 Yeah, sure. I mean, look, some of it was

6:22 just actually knowledge in some of the more advanced sales

6:26 skills because there are, you know, I can explain a few as

6:30 well. There are some technical skills

6:32 needed when selling and influencing people.

6:35 OK, now it's ranges from a few things like the types of

6:39 questions you're asking. I mean, for example, when I

6:42 wasn't selling so well, I'd go into meetings and I'd talk too

6:45 much and I'd be talking at customers.

6:47 I wouldn't be asking those really powerful questions to

6:49 uncover needs. That's just one example.

6:52 And then the big thing as well was that that inner game

6:54 confidence, because when you're not sales is very, it's very

6:58 ruthless in a way because there's no hiding, right?

7:02 It's a, it's a number. You're either hitting the

7:03 numbers or not hitting the numbers, and because of that,

7:07 when you're not hitting numbers, your confidence starts this up.

7:10 You start doubting yourself. Well, or you start, yeah, you

7:13 start doubting yourself or you start, you're not in this sort

7:15 of powerful state you need to be.

7:16 So when I wasn't selling as well years ago, now I look back at it

7:20 in particular, my confidence wasn't where it needed to be.

7:24 And The thing is, you could actually be still quite a

7:27 confident person. I I know a lot of confident

7:29 people. Like in my general life at the

7:31 time, I was actually had a decent amount of confidence when

7:33 I was in social situations. But there's a difference between

7:36 being like general level of confidence and when you're

7:40 selling a product and service, either as a professional sales

7:43 or business development person or running your own business.

7:46 I think there's confidence level have to be even higher and

7:49 elevated to really, really become successful or, or when

7:51 you're speaking on stage, right? Like how how many times you, you

7:54 probably know people and I know people who are really confident

7:57 when they're out with their friends out in a group

8:00 situation, stick them on stage and suddenly their confidence

8:03 stops. It's the same person, different

8:06 platform, suddenly the inner game changing.

8:08 So it asked you a question when it wasn't working as well.

8:11 For me it was a a combination of lacking some technical skills

8:14 and I'd say that inner game state, confidence, whatever you

8:17 want to call it. So I know you have a workshop

8:20 coming up in just less than a week, so I'm not going to ask

8:24 you everything that you're going to talk about at the workshop,

8:27 but let's break down the technical skills because I know,

8:31 like for me personally, nervousness, anxiety is

8:35 definitely my biggest enemy. I feel like I was doing company

8:39 training and I know the material very well, but my voice was

8:43 trembling. Thank God it didn't come through

8:45 in the recording. So I think that might be one of

8:48 the big area for a lot of people.

8:51 Yes. Did you mean the anxiety side of

8:52 things? Mm hmm.

8:53 Yeah. Yeah, so look, everything

8:56 obviously different things for different people, different

8:58 people have reasons why, why they're being anxious.

9:00 And, and also, you know, depending on the situation.

9:02 I mean, I've, I've stood in front of hundreds of people and

9:04 spoke. And even though I'm an

9:06 experienced speaker and, and, and a very confident speaker on

9:09 stage, I mean, I generally don't get that much anxiety.

9:11 But sometimes even I still will get a little bit of anxiety if

9:14 it's a, is a, if it's a, a situation that I really want to

9:18 go. Well, of course, a little bit of

9:19 nerves to remember are actually quite good because I know it's a

9:22 cliche saying, but it really shows you care.

9:24 If you don't care at all, you're not going to get nerves.

9:26 So a little bit of nerves and anxiety is actually good.

9:30 I mean, I, I, I like sport and I one of the sports I like

9:33 watching is boxing. And I always remember that one

9:37 of the famous boxing trainers custom auto, he said fear make

9:41 it your friend. Fear.

9:43 Anxiety goes fear is like a is like a fire.

9:45 It can keep you warm, right? But if it goes out of control,

9:48 it will burn you, right. And it's the same with anxiety.

9:51 So I always say little bits, little bits, fine.

9:53 But in terms of how to reduce that, like one of the things I

9:57 talk about when either sales or speaking, right, when you're,

10:01 you're going to jump on stage, you're going to be on a camera,

10:03 you're going to be on a whatever it is on LinkedIn, social media,

10:07 a virtual stage, an in person stage.

10:09 Or you're in a, in a meeting, you're pitching to people,

10:13 you're pitching for investment or you're in a sales meeting and

10:15 you're looking to influence someone.

10:18 All those situations can bring up a little bit of anxiety and

10:21 understandably so. And so one of the things I

10:24 always get my clients to do and get people to think about is

10:27 your deeper why? Your deeper why?

10:29 OK, yes. Why are you speaking at the

10:32 moment? What's so important about it?

10:34 So for example, I'll I'll keep it, I'll keep some examples to

10:37 myself and make it easier. When I'm speaking on stage, I'll

10:41 always remind myself, why am I speaking about this topic?

10:44 Why am I speaking about influence and sales and

10:46 confidence and mindset? And the reason is because I'm

10:50 passionate about them and they can help people.

10:52 So when you come from a place of service and helping, you almost

10:56 make it less about yourself and you make it more about your

10:58 audience, which naturally reduces your anxiety because

11:02 then you're not trying to perform, you're trying to.

11:05 Connect. Yeah, yeah, right.

11:07 Yeah, it's a different energy when you're trying to impress

11:09 and perform versus when you're trying to connect and help,

11:13 right? And when you're trying to

11:14 connect and help people feel that more important or just as

11:17 importantly, you actually feel less nervous because you're in a

11:20 different state. So one thing I will say is is

11:23 always remind yourself and I think anything you do, even in

11:26 your regular job, right? If you're connecting to a deeper

11:30 Y, right, that can really help. But some people say, well, I

11:33 haven't got such a spiritual powerful reason for my why I go,

11:37 it doesn't have to be. It could be you're doing this

11:39 because you have a family and you want to really provide well

11:42 for them and you realize this talk or this sale is going to

11:46 help do that, right? So it doesn't matter what the

11:49 why is, I think get in that why. The other thing related to that

11:53 is, again, always remember like what you're doing, how it helps.

11:59 So when I'm selling my products and services, when I'm speaking

12:02 on stage and I'm educating my audience and then promoting what

12:05 I do, I'm doing it from a place of this is going to help them.

12:09 Like the amount of business owners, the amount of people I

12:12 work with who are like so relieved when they're able to

12:14 start influencing and selling more, right?

12:16 It's it's life changing for them sometimes, right?

12:19 So, and I remember myself 20 years ago when I wasn't selling

12:22 and then when I did sell, the difference, it was like

12:25 financially just I was coming to work, enjoying work rather than

12:29 not enjoying it. You know, you're a happier

12:31 person. So where I'm going with this is

12:34 with my coaching services, The reason I can speak with so much

12:37 conviction and I'm not sort of standing there sitting there

12:40 thinking, oh, I hope they like me or I hope they don't think

12:43 I'm being too pushy. I'm like, no, I know that what

12:47 I've got is a value and as long as the other persons need it,

12:49 then it's my duty to, to tell them about it, to influence them

12:54 to be in my, my powerful state. And so kind of relate to the

12:59 first point, but knowing your why and knowing how you're going

13:01 to help people is really takes the pressure off you and stops

13:05 getting in your head and makes you come from a place of

13:07 service. And then the other thing I will

13:09 say is state management. State management.

13:12 Yeah, like sports people do it a lot, right?

13:15 So they good look to get themselves into a peak state.

13:19 So a boxer before they're going to go in the ring, they want to

13:21 get in their most confident state.

13:23 A football player before they're going to take a penalty, they

13:26 want to get in that state of conviction, OK?

13:28 It's the same when you're speaking or selling, OK?

13:31 You want to be in a state of as much confidence as possible.

13:35 So one of the things I always say is like, I remember one of

13:38 my clients said like, what's the best way to prepare for a

13:40 meeting or before or prepare for a talk on stage?

13:43 And I said, look, of course practice, know your stuff.

13:46 If you're going to know about your client, know about your

13:48 audience, all of that stuff is you have to do, but it's also

13:52 really important to be in a state of confidence.

13:55 So what I always get my what we can get people to do before

13:58 they're going to go on a stage or they're going to go into a

14:00 meeting is actually literally go through all their wins in their

14:04 head. Go through what makes them

14:08 great. Go through their if they're

14:09 selling a product and service, go through testimonials of like

14:12 clients who've just really benefited from that, right?

14:15 Write it down or go through in your head definitely before

14:18 you're going to go. But one of the things I

14:20 encourage my clients to do is do this on a regular basis, like

14:24 once every few months. You should write down what's so

14:26 great about you, what's so great about your product and service.

14:31 And when you're then actually got tangible evidence, the brain

14:34 is always looking for evidence. You've got to remind yourself of

14:38 why you or your product or your service or what you're going to

14:41 speak about is so great. And if you combine that with how

14:45 is it going to help people and what's your deeper why, that

14:49 will get rid of 7080% of anxiety.

14:52 Then adding some other technical skills on top, practicing and

14:55 things like that, that's going to help with the other 2030%.

14:58 But I always say like 70 to 80% of of performance of Speaking of

15:04 influencing of life, even it's in the brain.

15:07 Yeah, the going through your wins.

15:09 It's something I do as well. Not necessarily before a meeting

15:14 because I don't have a lot of speaking rules, but I save

15:17 little Slack messages. Amazing when people praises me.

15:23 Yeah, because like for what I do, project management, you

15:26 don't get the credit when a project goes well, you get

15:29 blamed when it fails. So yeah, that's a really, really

15:33 good confidence boost. Exactly.

15:36 So when someone is speaking and the people think, oh, this

15:40 person is good, what are some of those cues that we are

15:44 subconsciously responding to? So, yeah, I mean, look, really

15:47 good question and we respond to a few things, but one of the big

15:50 things is, and I think people don't realize it, you're

15:52 responding to someone's energy and energy is a bit of an

15:55 intangible. It's an aura.

15:58 But but we do, you know, forget about going to the science of

16:01 it, right? There's a lot of work now about

16:03 reading of energy and how people read each other's energy.

16:06 Now, I really believe that you are going to get influence for

16:09 people when they sound certain, right?

16:12 So if there's a speaker on stage or if you're in a sales meeting,

16:16 the person in front of you, if that salesperson or that speaker

16:18 sounds certain, is certain, that transfers to you.

16:21 You feel more safe and you're more likely to be persuaded by

16:24 them or influenced by them. Yeah, if you're trying to sell

16:28 it something, you better believe in the something yourself.

16:31 Yeah. And look, if I, if I'm ever

16:33 speaking to someone and they want to sell me something and I

16:35 think they don't even believe in it properly, there is no chance

16:37 I'm going to, I'm going to want to work with them.

16:39 And if I'm listening to someone on stage and I'm like this

16:41 speaker, I don't think they would even believe in the

16:44 message they're speaking about. Again, I'm not going to be

16:46 influenced by it. So I know it sounds really

16:48 obvious, but it's that transfer of certainty.

16:51 And so when we are looking at great speakers without realizing

16:53 we are actually being, we're very convinced by what they're

16:56 saying. OK, then of course, it depends

16:59 on what they're saying as well, because we have to also agree

17:02 with some of their points or at least not even agree with them.

17:04 But think that was something different.

17:06 That was something that I didn't think about before.

17:08 So there is obviously the content, but it's more about the

17:11 delivery of that content and energy comes from some of the

17:14 things I just spoke about before.

17:16 Because if a speaker or a salesperson or anybody in

17:21 influential place is on stage is speaking because they're coming

17:26 from a deeper sense of why, if they're coming because they're

17:29 trying to serve you rather than just get something over the line

17:31 or sell to you. If they're coming because they

17:34 really, you could tell they really rate themselves and

17:36 believe in what they're doing, the product, the service

17:38 themselves. That's going to be certainty.

17:40 You're going to feel that energy and you're going to want to,

17:41 you're going to be more likely to be impressed by them,

17:44 influenced by them. Then there are other things as

17:47 well, like, you know, the way they use their body, right?

17:51 The way they use their voice, right, the way that they use

17:55 their eye contact, right? So all of these things added to

17:59 the actual confidence of belief they're displaying as well as

18:03 the message they're giving is it's, it's what makes a speaker

18:07 greater. And just one thing to add to

18:09 that. When I say confidence state and

18:11 certainty, it doesn't mean you have to be a really loud jumping

18:14 up and down speaker or, or salesperson.

18:16 Sometimes there's a quiet confidence for some people, it

18:19 is that kind of high energy jumping, right?

18:22 For some people, it's actually more of a a calmer, quieter

18:25 confidence that that can be portrayed.

18:28 There's no right or wrong. It's just about if you feel that

18:32 that person is coming from a genuine place, if that person is

18:34 really certain about what they do and that person is very clear

18:38 about the the message they're giving, you're going to be much

18:40 more likely to to want to listen to them.

18:44 I was thinking car salesman when you were answering because there

18:49 is too much sometimes car salesman or salespeople, they

18:53 have a reputation of just wanting to sell you something.

18:56 They are very confident. They are very high energy most

19:00 of the time. But why do they turn us off?

19:03 Yeah, why do we have such a perception?

19:06 It's a really good. Question our sales people.

19:08 I'll tell you what it is, Karen. I mean, first of all, if I tell

19:11 you some stats, you'll probably be surprised.

19:13 So 48% of sales people across all industries completely fail

19:18 at their job. I'm not, I'm not talking about

19:19 48%, right? This is through some extensive

19:22 research that I looked at. 48% fail.

19:25 So I'm not talking about, I'm not doing very well.

19:26 I mean, you need to get rid of them within one year.

19:29 OK, so that just shows you that most actual sales people are,

19:32 sorry to say, are pretty rubbish.

19:33 OK, Then another 32% are not terrible, but they're sort of

19:38 struggling, OK, They've hit targets regularly.

19:41 So only 20% of sales people are very good and all those 20%,

19:45 only 6% are elite. OK, so first of all, the reason

19:48 why we get turned off by a lot of salespeople is most of them

19:51 aren't very good. So you're being exposed to a lot

19:54 of not so good a profession where not most people are not

19:57 very good. So naturally you're going to

19:59 have bad experiences. But then again, the second thing

20:02 is I think that, well, there's a couple of things.

20:05 Human nature is to be sceptical. Yeah.

20:08 It's a it's a protection mechanism.

20:10 It's a survival. Mechanism and, and you know,

20:14 going back to even some of the points I made earlier, like

20:16 we've evolved, you know, from being Cavemen and women, right?

20:20 Like we've been around for a couple of 100,000 years.

20:22 We've only really lived in this kind of civilization for the

20:25 last 5006 thousand years and even modern day civilization

20:29 probably the last 100 years or so.

20:31 So we have been, you know, if we think about it, we only live

20:33 like we're living like now for 5 minutes really.

20:35 We've been living mostly in caves and in very dangerous

20:38 situations. And so we've evolved to spot

20:42 danger, stand for danger, because it kept us safe.

20:45 So that's why, you know, we typically also have a tendency

20:49 to reflect on the negative and the positive.

20:51 That's why I say things like witness are very important

20:53 because we'll be very quick to criticize ourselves and beat

20:56 ourselves up when we do something wrong.

20:58 But we'll find it much more difficult to kind of praise

21:00 ourselves and look at what we're great at.

21:02 So without going into too many points, going back to why we're

21:05 skeptical and we're looking, it's, it's a survival mechanism

21:08 now. We're not 50,000 years ago when

21:11 we were on the Savannah looking out for a lion.

21:13 That's not what we need to survive now.

21:15 Now it's I'm speaking to you. What do you want from me?

21:19 What, why should I not trust you?

21:21 What are you just trying to get from me?

21:22 You're just trying to sell me something so you can make money

21:25 out of me. So we're sceptical.

21:27 So we've got a combination of quite a few salespeople not

21:30 being very good at what they do. Then naturally we're sceptical.

21:33 Like sometimes somebody is just being genuine and they really

21:35 believe in that. They can help you, right?

21:38 But we're still going to have a level of skepticism.

21:41 So that's the other thing. And then the third thing is I

21:43 think most and even some of the good ones, there's still too

21:47 much in the energy of trying to get something from you rather

21:51 than trying to serve you. And that's one thing I will say

21:55 to my clients, go into service, because when you're in service,

21:58 I, I think people just pick up on it.

22:00 They just trust you more. They're, they're, they can see

22:02 that you're not just trying to sell them something for your

22:04 benefit, you're trying to sell something for their benefit.

22:07 I think people will pick up on that and as a result, they will

22:12 trust more. So most of the time, you know,

22:16 most sales people you come across aren't doing it for your

22:19 benefit, they're doing it for theirs.

22:21 And so one of the things, you know, I always go into and talk

22:24 and train and teach about is how do you get into the customer's

22:27 world and how do you generally come from a place of service?

22:31 Because I think when you do that, you've got a much better

22:33 chance and people trust you more.

22:36 Yeah, think about the disservice that not being able to speak

22:40 convincingly and confidently due to someone you couldn't know the

22:43 materials very well. You could be genuine, but that's

22:47 not coming across. Yeah, I mean, totally.

22:50 I mean, I know some people who've got some great content,

22:53 really good at what they do. It actually happened to me a few

22:55 weeks ago. I went to a business event, OK,

22:58 where there is, it was quite a large business event.

23:01 And the guy, he is a business coach, really, really successful

23:04 one. And part of what he did is he

23:06 gave people like a they could put their name in the hat if

23:10 they wanted to, and they could come up and get live coaching on

23:13 stage on the business. And one of the guys, yeah,

23:16 really, really good. Interesting.

23:18 Yeah. One of the guys said there was

23:19 about probably 300 people in the room, 3400 people in the room,

23:22 and it was a stage. And the, the, the coach got one

23:25 of the guys on stage who'd put his name forward.

23:27 And the guy was a, he was a coach himself and he coached on

23:32 limiting beliefs. So his coaching business was I

23:35 help people get rid of the limiting beliefs he got on stage

23:39 and he just, he couldn't articulate what he was saying.

23:42 He, he just sounded confusing to the audience.

23:45 He didn't even sound that confident and even like his

23:48 words and and his, his delivery was a little bit, it wasn't

23:51 clear it was all messed up. It was not in any sort of order.

23:55 And actually, I remember sitting there thinking, and I was

23:58 thinking this, and I'm sure the rest of the audience were

23:59 thinking, I'm sure he's probably a really good coach, getting rid

24:03 of people's liberty beliefs. But because he couldn't

24:05 articulate it well, you actually lost credibility for him as a

24:08 coach. I actually, I actually thought,

24:10 I don't think I'd actually use this service here if I was

24:12 someone who needed it. So where I'm going with that is

24:16 it's real. It's really important to learn

24:18 to speak because sometimes you have something really powerful

24:21 to give to the world. And because you can't speak or

24:23 sell, because I call them the same thing, then you're, you

24:27 know, you're doing yourself injustice and potentially

24:30 someone who could really benefit from your service or product

24:33 isn't benefiting from it. It's really important.

24:35 It's really, really important. I think with this world of AI

24:38 that we're going into, right, where AI to a certain degree can

24:41 be a great equalizer and make us more productive and efficient

24:44 and everything. I mean, we don't know how how

24:46 much AI is going to advance. But certainly for the time

24:48 being, I do think that if you have an ability to speak,

24:51 connect and influence people, you stand out exactly.

24:55 And you will stand out in the AI world.

24:56 Exactly. Because there needs to be some

24:59 real time in person exchange and they know you're not talking

25:03 looking at an AI, like asking AI this question and answering

25:08 after looking at the AI answer. So for that person who was not

25:12 very cohesive, that reminded me of when that happened to me.

25:16 Because there's not enough thinking time or there's a lag

25:20 between me formulating the thought to it coming out.

25:23 There's not enough time to process that in real time.

25:26 So it comes out not cohesive. What's some things we can do to

25:32 tackle that? Well, I think a lot of the

25:34 things that I spoke about earlier, I think when you're in

25:36 the right state and you're coming mentally from a different

25:39 place that that starts naturally going down less because you're

25:43 less in your mind, you're less in your head, you're more in

25:46 your body, right? So that's why it's something

25:49 that you should constantly work on because if you just do it

25:52 like an hour before a talk, it's not ingrained in you enough.

25:56 So I'm a big believer in so a lot of the stuff I talk about

25:59 mindset, I'm a believer just like we go to the gym, you know,

26:02 a few times a week and work out because we want to get healthy

26:05 and a good body and etcetera. We need to do the same with our

26:08 mind, right? And I think people will see

26:10 something that mindset is something that you just do once

26:13 in a while. And I'm like, but you wouldn't

26:14 go to the gym just once in a while and expect good results,

26:17 right? You, you like, you see the logic

26:19 in going whatever, minimum three times a week or whatever it is,

26:22 right? Why are we not doing something

26:24 similar with our mindset? So when you do that, what you

26:28 just mentioned there, where there's no cohesion, you know,

26:30 like what you're what you're thinking, what you're saying is

26:32 not coming out the same. That will massively improve.

26:36 But then of course, learning some of those skills, learning

26:38 to breathe, learning to pause, learning to speak in a certain

26:43 way, the technical skills that helps as well.

26:45 But I I just really being believed, Karen, that it all

26:48 begins like with your state and in the mind and you need to get

26:52 that foundation right. So when I speak on stage, for

26:55 example, I'm so into my service, I'm so confident in what I do

26:59 works that I'm not standing there most well, in fact, all

27:02 the time I'm never, I'm not really standing there going.

27:04 I hope they like me. I hope this is coming across

27:06 well. Like I want it to come across

27:08 well, don't get me wrong, But I'm not sort of sitting there in

27:10 that energy. I hope I don't look like I'm

27:12 trying to oversell myself. I'm just going out there being

27:15 natural and some people are not going to like that and and I'm

27:18 OK with that. I mean, actually that's

27:19 something else I should mention. Not everyone's always going to

27:21 like you. So I think the the people

27:24 generally in life are. Just accept that.

27:26 Yeah. I think if you just get

27:27 comfortable with not everybody, whether that's in personal life,

27:31 business life, in a meeting on stage, not everyone's going to

27:34 like your delivery style. But you're not trying to make

27:37 everyone like you. You're trying to connect with a

27:39 certain people that you think need that message and resonate

27:42 with that message. Because if he's constantly

27:44 sitting there or standing there thinking about I hope everyone

27:47 likes me and everything and I hope every single person gets

27:50 me, it's going to be really difficult.

27:52 Yeah, it's not realistic and it just adds to the I hope they

27:55 like me being the focus of your mind instead of I'm going to try

27:59 to help these people with what I have to say.

28:02 So let's talk about body language because I have seen so

28:05 many videos about gestures that generally make people look

28:09 confident. What are some of those?

28:11 Yeah. I mean, I've studied body

28:13 language and I've listened to different speakers about body

28:15 language and people have slightly different things.

28:17 So I find what works for me and what I've, when I've educated

28:22 clients about, so they say it works for them.

28:24 So I personally believe it Fill fill the space.

28:29 OK. Right.

28:30 So let's say you're on stage like Stan, like you're, you

28:33 know, you're proud and you own that stage.

28:34 Don't, you know, shrink your shoulders and sort of shrink

28:37 yourself, like own the space, like physically stand up and

28:40 feel more space in that stage. It sounds, sounds a bit weird,

28:43 but it, it really, it really looks confident.

28:46 It and also what it does, it sends a message to you like, you

28:49 know, we've, I can't remember who the person was.

28:52 One of the, the coaches out there said that if you stand

28:55 with your hands and your hips, you actually like your brain

28:58 gets a signal and and it makes you feel more confident.

29:00 It's a Physiology thing, right? So get in the right posture,

29:04 feel space, go bigger, Don't, don't shrink that.

29:08 That makes a massive difference, right.

29:10 And then like I say, use all your body when you're speaking.

29:13 Like I see some speakers and actually their, their voice is

29:16 pretty strong and pretty good, but they're just, they're just

29:18 not using their arms. They're not using their hands,

29:20 they're not using any gestures. They're they're really sort of

29:23 stuck in one place. And I just think that makes them

29:26 less powerful. So use your body, use your hand

29:29 gestures, use your arms, you know, use, use, use.

29:32 It's not just your voice, it's your body when you're speaking,

29:35 right? It's especially when like it's

29:36 different when you're on a recorded podcast or when you're,

29:39 you know, behind a camera, you maybe the body becomes less

29:41 important, right? But when you're especially on a

29:44 live stage and people can physically see you, you've got

29:47 to think about your body as well.

29:48 Is it because it's more natural if you use your whole body?

29:52 It's more natural, it's more memorable.

29:53 Like we, I mean, if UK goes back to a big believer in looking at

29:56 evolution, we learnt to use our bodies before humans learn

30:00 language, right. So you think that I don't know

30:03 when, when it was, but say 50,100 thousand years ago before

30:05 we could speak, a lot of time you're using gestures with each

30:08 other. So we're hard wired to actually

30:10 want to see some of those gestures.

30:12 So now we obviously learn language.

30:13 But if you can combine that with some powerful body language as

30:16 well as what you say, of course it makes a difference.

30:20 Things about like using your eyes, I mean, they say like eyes

30:23 are the window to the soul. The eyes never lie and stuff

30:27 like use your eyes, right? Like I, when I, when I'm

30:30 speaking, I, I will look at the audience, I look into the eyes,

30:34 right? And what a lot of people do is

30:36 either look into sort of space, which isn't great, or they'll

30:39 scan the audience, right? And they don't actually look at

30:41 anyone properly. So one of the techniques I would

30:44 say is when you're speaking as you're speaking, every few,

30:47 every so often look at one person and say a point and, and

30:50 just say it to that one person, even as an audience of 100, then

30:52 change, move to another person. Then maybe mix it up and scan a

30:56 bit. But let's say, you know, if I do

30:57 a talk and I did a talk with a couple of 100 people, I will.

31:01 And that talk was 15 minutes. Within that 15 minutes, I'll

31:05 make sure that at least about 15 people, I held eye contact with

31:08 him for a few seconds. Not enough to make you look

31:12 weird, right? But enough to be like they,

31:14 they, they felt you. Because eyes are really number

31:18 one. It shows confidence and #2 you

31:19 connect with those 15 people, even if there's 15, you will

31:22 connect with them and the audience will feel that they've

31:25 gained energy, will feel those 15 people being connected with,

31:28 and they'll feel more connected as well.

31:31 And then a couple of more things when you're moving, because

31:34 people talk about moving, when I said about earlier, you know,

31:36 use your body, but don't overly fidget.

31:40 And what I say is when you move, the best way to speak is you

31:44 stand still, you deliver a point, then you move.

31:46 You actually physically move, but you do it with conviction,

31:50 right? And then you speak again.

31:51 So maybe you mean move four or five times in a talk, but you do

31:54 it with conviction. You're not shuffling around.

31:56 And I see some people when they speak and sort of shuffling

31:58 around or aimlessly wandering and they're constantly moving

32:01 and that actually then loses the the value and the power.

32:05 So yeah, there there. I mean, there's lots of other

32:07 things as well, but there are some of the the main things when

32:09 it comes to body language like use your body, use it well.

32:13 What are some of the no Nos when it comes to gesture you said?

32:17 Like don't be overly fidgety, don't just be moving around with

32:22 no purpose. What are some other one?

32:23 Let's say we're in a one-on-one conversation.

32:25 OK, so with A1 on one conversation, I think it's

32:28 really important to like, there's a certain level of

32:31 mirroring the other person, right?

32:33 Not mirroring them to the point where you're being like a

32:35 parrot, but you know, just, you know, just slightly, you know,

32:39 you want to be In Sync with them, right?

32:41 You want to be In Sync with their body language, their pace

32:44 of talk, right? One of the things we, we talk

32:47 about is, is disc personality styles, which is, you know, I

32:50 won't go into that too much. And different personalities,

32:52 they're actually sometimes will speak at different speeds.

32:55 OK, I'm quite a naturally fast speaker, OK, The, the words come

33:00 out of my mouth naturally quite quickly.

33:02 So I have to sometimes remember, I have to consciously remember

33:05 if I'm speaking with someone who speaks a lot slowly than me, I

33:08 have to actually slow down. I have to go against my natural,

33:12 you know, my natural speaking style, which is fine.

33:14 A little bit of adjusting is fine.

33:16 OK, If I'm speaking though in front of somebody who's really

33:19 quick speaking and thinking and talking, it's fine, right?

33:22 Match them. So I think one of the things is

33:24 you want to you want to really get In Sync with the person

33:27 you're with one-on-one. Also, I mean, this is kind of

33:30 going outside speaking now, but this is going more into like

33:33 pure speaking. This is going into the more

33:34 realms of actually selling like you want to ask really powerful

33:38 questions and you want to listen, right?

33:41 Because, you know, research has shown this as well.

33:43 And in fact, we used to, in fact, we still sort of use a

33:46 tool where we used to record people's conversations in a

33:51 sales conversation. And then what we found is that

33:54 the, when the salesperson, well, you know, whoever that is, you

33:58 know, business owners selling their products and services,

34:00 when they spoke a lot more than the customer, the sale didn't

34:04 happen. When they're speaking to

34:07 listening with about 5050 and even more of this maybe the

34:10 customer's favour, where the customer spoke more than the

34:12 salesperson, the sale happened. So one of the things is, is

34:16 like, now I'm speaking, right, You're interviewing me.

34:18 So I'm very much in a speaking mode.

34:19 If I was having a sales conversation, I'll be asking

34:22 much more questions. I'll be speaking less, not, not

34:24 totally not speaking, speaking less.

34:27 And I'll be trying to find out more from the customer.

34:29 So that's not quite speaking itself.

34:31 That's more selling. And yeah, so the the no no's or

34:36 you know, are, are to, to not if you're not matching, that's a

34:41 really bad no no. And all all the other things I

34:45 said earlier, if you're trying to just sell somebody something

34:49 right, if you're making it all about yourself, if you're more

34:52 worried about whether they like you or not, the whether you can

34:55 connect with them, whether you can serve them, these are all no

34:57 no's. These are all going to affect

34:59 your ability to speak, your ability to sell, your ability to

35:01 be successful. So recording for conversations

35:06 for training purposes is real. Like when you call customer

35:10 service, that's always the disclaimer.

35:12 Yeah, they. So that is they.

35:14 Do use it sometimes, not all the time.

35:15 Yeah, they do use it. So something that I've been

35:20 interested in, language and accents, sometimes people are

35:25 not very confident because they don't speak English very well or

35:29 they have accents that make it hard to understand, that hurts

35:34 their confidence subconsciously. Have you handled clients like

35:38 that? It's again a really good

35:40 question. I mean, there's, there's a

35:42 couple of responses here. I mean, you can have accent

35:45 training. I don't do that, but there are

35:47 accent coaches, accent trainers out there and that certainly

35:50 will help. So you could do something about

35:52 it in that sense. But what I've said to clients,

35:55 so I've had clients, but remember one of the, it actually

35:57 happened a few months ago, one of my clients, she's an E

35:59 European lady. And she said that, she said, I

36:02 feel like I don't feel very confident in my English,

36:04 especially my accent. And again, it goes back to

36:08 mindset. I said actually your accent

36:11 helps you stand out like you're memorable.

36:14 Right. Memorable, I said.

36:16 In a way. I'm in London.

36:17 My accent is just normal. My accent isn't memorable at

36:20 all, like when I'm here in the UK.

36:22 So you can flip the script in your mind, you can go from, you

36:27 know, my accent is going to make me look like stand out in a bad

36:30 way. People won't understand me to

36:32 actually my accent is always going to make me memorable and

36:36 stand out, which is what we always really want to do.

36:39 So I think one thing is, again, flip it in your mind, because if

36:42 you're going there and you're conscious about your accent,

36:45 it's not the accent that's going to make you actually lose the

36:49 the sale or the speech. It's the consciousness about it.

36:53 That's going to be the fact that you're worried about it.

36:55 That's what's going to lose it. But if you flip that script to

36:57 actually, I love my accent being different, it's going to be my

37:01 superpower. It's actually what's going to

37:02 make me stand out. You're now going to speak with

37:04 more confidence and ironically, the accent is not going to be a

37:07 problem at all. So that I would say is the main

37:10 thing. But of course, it depends on how

37:13 you know how like unclear your accent is or how with your level

37:17 of English, I guess. But obviously then you can have

37:20 accent training and English training.

37:21 But I, I do believe, again, a lot of it's in the mind.

37:24 Don't, don't think of it as a as a hindrance.

37:26 Think of it as a superpower. I love that I tend to, when I

37:30 learn new languages, I want to speak it in the perfect accent

37:35 to that language. So I'm really glad that you

37:38 pointed that out because I I've known so many people who that is

37:42 sort of a hindrance for themselves, but there are also

37:45 people with worse accents than them that are more confident

37:49 than. Them yeah, 100% and and just one

37:51 little thing to add there. You said the word perfection.

37:53 So one of the things I actually say one of my older mentors used

37:56 to say that perfection can be poverty.

37:59 What they meant by that, if you're always trying to do the

38:03 perfect speech, the perfect talk like, so I'll, I'll take you to

38:07 a sales situation because obviously we work with sales

38:09 teams and people like if you're about to do something like a,

38:13 you know, call, call a customer or cold call or anything like

38:16 that. If you're constantly looking for

38:17 the perfect script, you're not going to make calls right now.

38:23 Just if we look at math here, right, you've got two people and

38:27 one guy makes 5 calls which he thinks are perfect, OK.

38:32 And the other guy makes 50 calls, which aren't bad.

38:35 They're not, but they're not perfect.

38:37 They're just good. OK?

38:40 Even the guy who makes 5 perfect calls, not everyone's going to

38:42 buy from them, right? Let's say he still has a pretty

38:45 good rate because it's perfect and four people buy from him.

38:49 Three people. So he's made four sales.

38:50 OK? The other guy who made 50 calls

38:53 of a good, not great, but good, even if only 20% of the people

38:58 buy from him are still 10 people, he still outperformed

39:01 the guy who did perfect right. So that's where perfection

39:04 becomes poverty. And that's where sometimes

39:06 people could just procrastinate over things and action is always

39:09 the thing that's going to win. So I always say get to a very

39:11 good level. I, I, I don't believe in, never

39:13 put anything out there that's rubbish.

39:15 Never go and do a talk that's rubbish.

39:17 Never, never do anything like that.

39:18 But sometimes get to a good enough state, right?

39:22 And then you don't have to be perfect, because the

39:24 perfection's actually going to make you get not take action,

39:27 which ironically is going to stop you getting the results you

39:29 want to, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

39:32 The goal is not to be perfect. The goal is to make the sale.

39:36 So going back to what you said earlier, your mindset, you are

39:40 helping this person by telling this person what you have to

39:44 say, what service you provide and that put you in a totally

39:47 different state. Exactly and and and the other

39:51 state is of course and be abundant.

39:53 Be abundant. Yeah, it's, it's so true that

39:55 when you, when you are like for example, your business is doing

39:58 really well, right? You don't, you don't or your, if

40:02 you're a salesperson, your sellers are going really well.

40:04 You don't need that sale as you're not as desperate and you

40:06 actually walk away from things and people feel that and

40:09 actually ironically want to do business with you.

40:11 Right. So it's a bit of a, it's a bit

40:13 of a vicious loop because the more successful you are, the

40:16 more you can do that. The less successful you are, the

40:18 more you're in kind of that lack mentality which.

40:21 Yeah, I need everything. Which drives people away.

40:22 So there it is difficult, but one thing.

40:24 And this is where again, it's probably a talk for another day,

40:28 but you can trick your brain and you can get it to feel that it's

40:31 abundant even when it quite isn't yet.

40:34 And if you go with, that's why I think faith and belief is really

40:36 important, because if you just walk around like thinking that

40:40 you know what, maybe it's not great at the moment or it's not

40:43 perfect yet, but everything's going to work out fine.

40:45 That's a kind of an abundant mentality, right?

40:48 And you and then eventually by taking action and not being

40:51 desperate, you will get the results you want.

40:53 Yeah, yeah. Not being desperate, definitely.

40:56 It works for everything. If you're trying to find a new

40:58 flat, you're trying to find a new job A.

41:01 New partner, A romantic partner. Like, nobody wants somebody

41:04 who's desperate, right? Yeah, because they will also

41:07 think you're only taking me because you're desperate.

41:09 So I'm definitely not going to buy from you.

41:11 I'm definitely not going to go out with you.

41:13 Exactly. Great.

41:15 So you mentioned technical skills quite a few times.

41:19 Is that what you're going to talk about at your workshop next

41:21 week? Yeah.

41:22 So we're going to we're going to do a few things in a workshop.

41:26 I mean, should I tell the audience a little bit about the

41:27 workshop? Yeah, let's do that, but keep

41:30 listening because we are going to do rapid fire later.

41:33 OK, yes, so on the first Monday, the 1st of December at to the

41:37 London Chamber of Commerce, we're doing an in person

41:40 workshop called Speak to Influence.

41:42 And I say we because it's going to be myself and the London

41:46 president of the Professional Speakers Association, very

41:48 talented lady or she very experienced.

41:50 Speaker And the reason we put it on, Karen, is we know we know

41:55 that a lot of people are either struggling or not where they

41:58 want to be when it comes to speaking and when it comes to

42:01 influencing, right? So what we're going to do, we're

42:04 going to cover the technical skills of speaking, but not just

42:07 speaking to speak well, but speaking to influence.

42:10 So that whether you're speaking on stage, whether you're

42:13 speaking on a, you know, on social media behind a camera or

42:18 whether you're in a sales call or meeting, you're going to be

42:21 much, much better and getting the results you want.

42:24 Whether that's connecting with people, influencing people,

42:26 impacting people. And what we're going to do is

42:29 we're going to go through some of those mindset areas that I

42:31 spoke about. We're also going to talk, we're

42:33 also going to look at some of the techniques that involved

42:35 that you can use to become really good in all those areas.

42:38 So it's, it's a very good workshop because I think it's

42:40 people who want to come there, who want to improve their

42:43 speaking skills, but also they're influencing skills,

42:45 right? This is going to be really, this

42:48 is what it's designed for. It's to tackle both and the

42:51 other thing is we're going to keep it very hands on and

42:53 practical. So we want it to be that people

42:55 who come that day, it's not just all theory.

42:57 We are going to give and it's all you don't have to.

42:59 We're going to give people the opportunity to actually practice

43:02 their pitch, a quick talk, a role play of a sales

43:06 conversation. So we will teach the skills and

43:08 then we'll get people to practice it and give them real

43:10 time feedback. So that for example, just I was

43:13 at a networking event the other day, one of the entrepreneurs I

43:16 met said he's currently looking to raise funding and he's doing

43:20 a lot of pitches in front of investors and he's not getting

43:22 the funding. I said, look, come along to this

43:24 workshop because we'll be teaching you some of the skills

43:26 there. And you can also practice if you

43:28 want to, no obligation. You can practice your pitch and

43:31 we can critique it so that when you then go out in the real

43:34 world, you're in a much better position to get the result you

43:36 want. So, you know, then you signed

43:38 up. So it's a really powerful

43:40 workshop because of what we're going to be teaching and also

43:43 because the fact that it's very practical and hands on.

43:45 And yeah, we're looking really forward to it.

43:48 So if anyone is interested in that, then just connect with me.

43:52 I'm on LinkedIn, Navin Jaitly, NAVINJAITLY or Instagram as well

43:59 and either drop me Adm or you can e-mail me which is Navin

44:04 Jaitley [email protected]. So there's a few different ways

44:08 there and I, you know, can send the details, but we've got a few

44:11 spaces left and I'm looking very forward to.

44:13 It yeah, I would have your information, all the contact

44:16 details in the show notes as well.

44:18 And for those who are lucky enough to be London or close

44:21 enough to London, definitely give it a try because Christmas

44:26 is coming, there's a lot of holiday parties, family

44:30 gathering. You can be more confident with

44:32 your family too. True.

44:35 All right, let's do rapid fire. Sure, go for it.

44:38 Is there something that people always get wrong when they're

44:41 speaking or selling that drives you crazy?

44:44 OK, so for when they're speaking, it's when some of the

44:48 things that they do like they don't, they mumble, they don't

44:51 own their body and they don't speak with confidence like that,

44:55 that that could hurt me. But when they're selling, it's

44:57 when they talk too much and they don't ask powerful questions and

45:00 they don't listen like I, I've, I get sold too, of course,

45:04 right. I've actually, sometimes I was

45:06 getting sold on the phone the other day and actually stopped

45:08 them and said, look, just to give you a couple of tips.

45:11 This is where you're, you're kind of going wrong with selling

45:13 to me. And they were like, Oh my God,

45:14 thank you. But yeah.

45:16 Yeah. Thank you.

45:18 So yeah, there there are a couple of things.

45:20 I mean, just on the top of my head there are the two things I

45:22 can think of. OK, next one.

45:24 Was there a funny speaking mishap in your life that now you

45:29 always mention it as a joke to family gatherings?

45:33 It wasn't a mishap, but it was something that happened so years

45:36 ago. I was going to speak, but just

45:37 before I went on there, there was a, a lady who who went just

45:41 before me and part of her talk she, she did, she started

45:44 singing right, like at the end of it.

45:46 But The thing is, her voice was terrible, right, right.

45:51 And everybody in the audience, you could tell was sort of, you

45:52 know what everyone's kind of looking at each other like, I

45:54 mean, I'm, I'm talking about terrible, right?

45:57 And I, I didn't, my, my humour is something like if, if

46:00 something's like in that situation where you can't laugh,

46:04 it makes me kind of laugh inside even more because I'm trying to

46:07 hold my laughing. And, you know, I was really

46:09 trying to hold it in because I was the next speaker on stage,

46:12 so everyone could see my face and I was putting my hand over

46:14 my face to, you know, I was, I was basically feeling what

46:16 everyone else was. And then I was next on.

46:19 So I was next on. I start speaking, but I couldn't

46:21 get that on my head. So throughout my talk, I just

46:25 had this big smirk on my face. And the audience, I think they

46:27 knew why I, I had that smirk and I was really trying to get rid

46:30 of it because I thought this is now looking really

46:32 inappropriate. But I, I, I actually couldn't.

46:34 So that's something I always remember.

46:36 It was funnier at the time. When I'm explaining it, it never

46:38 sounds as funny, but at the time it was like it was really funny.

46:42 I can. I can see why, yeah.

46:45 I hope it went well though. It went well.

46:47 I just like, I think I just looked like I was smiling the

46:49 whole way through. I mean, maybe the thought was

46:50 very friendly, but I think some of them knew why I was smiling

46:52 as well. Yeah, that makes it funnier.

46:55 OK, next one. What's a phrase that you find

46:59 yourself repeatedly saying to the clients you're coaching?

47:03 Oh, that's a good one. First thing, I mean, well,

47:07 rather than a phrase, I think there's a, there's a sort of a

47:09 consistent message. I always give people what I'm

47:12 coaching and that is number 1. And I really do believe that to

47:16 be successful in life, I actually genuinely think this is

47:18 probably the most important thing.

47:19 Well, equal important thing, which is believe in yourself,

47:24 right? Believe in yourself or your

47:26 product or your service, because ultimately that's what it comes

47:29 down to. So I'm always trying to give

47:31 them skills, techniques to believe in themselves, work on

47:34 their mindset, but but just generally remember that right

47:37 back yourself. And I think belief is so, so

47:41 important. The other thing, which when I

47:42 said equal importance is clarity.

47:44 I think if somebody really knows themselves and knows what they

47:47 want and have a, I'm not talking about, you know, inappropriate

47:52 level of a belief, belief with a cocky and anything like that.

47:54 I mean, just generally a solid belief.

47:56 I really do believe that they they can be successful.

47:59 So that's that's something. And then the other thing when

48:02 I'm, when I'm, I'm always reminding my clients is ask

48:06 powerful questions. When you're selling, try to

48:09 think, in fact, claim yourself that you're in a situation if a

48:13 client throws you a rejection, if you make a statement, always

48:16 try to think what's the next best question to ask in this

48:19 situation rather than just the next best thing to say because

48:23 people are over talk over justify oversell.

48:26 Asking questions makes the client or the person who you're

48:29 speaking to, they think about this situation more deeply.

48:33 That's much more powerful. There's a there's a, there's a

48:36 saying in sales which says telling isn't selling.

48:41 If I just stood there, if I just said to you, Karen, This is why

48:43 you need me. This is why you should you, you

48:45 actually probably defensive barriers up.

48:48 But if I, if I asked you the question, why do you think right

48:51 now you need sales trading or sales coaching?

48:53 Like very simple thing, very simple example here that's

48:57 making you think about why you need it.

48:59 Now, I'm not trying to sell to you.

49:00 I'm getting you to think about whether you need it or not.

49:02 So yeah, there's a couple of things.

49:04 Believe in yourself and ask powerful questions.

49:06 That's the power of the why, all right?

49:11 If you didn't get into sales nor coaching, what would you be

49:15 doing? Oh, it's a really good one.

49:18 I to be honest, I can't think of, I mean, I think speaking,

49:21 I've always enjoyed speaking. OK Sales is my 20 years in sales

49:25 built into a career and, and coaching and, and mindset and

49:29 understanding humans is, is something I'm passionate about.

49:32 So I'm very lucky that I do all three things.

49:35 And honestly, I, I don't really think I can't see myself.

49:38 It's a really difficult one to, to know what else I would be

49:41 doing. I think researching as well.

49:43 I, I love reading. So I probably, obviously you

49:46 can't, you can't make a living from just reading, but I think

49:48 probably researching. Well, honestly, I, I so love

49:51 what I do. And, and I've built up a very

49:54 good level of skill in those areas that I can't imagine me

49:57 doing something else. And I love people and I love

49:59 helping people. So yeah, I.

50:02 Maybe something in that, but yeah, helping people.

50:04 Yeah, which is the coaching side of what I do, right.

50:07 So the the coaching is the helping.

50:09 So yeah, it's, it's a good question, but I, I really can't

50:13 imagine myself doing anything different now.

50:15 So it may be something that is in a a form of coaching.

50:19 Yeah, or a. Form of sales.

50:21 Yeah, definitely, definitely something along the lines of of

50:24 developing people, right. It's quite funny because my

50:27 grandparents, my granddad was a teacher, one of my granddads and

50:30 my other granddad was I. Was thinking teaching, but yeah,

50:33 maybe teaching. Well, he was a teacher and my

50:36 other granddad was a run a gold business, right?

50:39 A gold shop. So gold.

50:41 Business like. A gold shop, right.

50:43 So, so I think that that combination of business and

50:47 education, it's kind of, I guess you could say in my blood and

50:50 what I do now is effectively both, right?

50:52 I'm running a business. So, you know, I have, it's very

50:55 professional, a business and the things you need to do as a

50:58 business. But I'm, I'm coaching, training

50:59 and teaching people, which is the teacher side.

51:03 And, and it's that combination that I love because, and I'm

51:05 helping them do the same because I'm helping develop them, but

51:08 I'm also helping them to make more revenue income and grow

51:12 their business. And so I feel like that

51:14 combination is, is something that I'm, I'm really interested

51:17 in and, and, and, and doing what I, I should be doing.

51:20 That's nice, but it's the nature and nurture.

51:23 Yeah, yeah. You have it in your nature and

51:26 you're nurturing it. Exactly, and I do believe that's

51:29 what people should try to do. Find your natural gifts and

51:32 double down on them. Yeah, right.

51:34 Well, thank you very much for speaking to me.

51:37 Thank you for having. Myself has learned a few things.

51:39 I enjoyed that. It really is really good

51:41 questions as well. So I enjoyed, I enjoyed that.

51:43 But thank you, I try to ask powerful questions as well.

51:45 No, you do. You do very much.

51:48 All right, so anyone in London are close enough, I'm going to

51:52 leave information about the workshop in the show notes.

51:55 Definitely check it out or get in touch with Nevin.

51:58 Yeah, sure. And even if anybody wants to

51:59 just talk about, you know, developing their business as

52:02 well, like I said, I work with entrepreneurs.

52:04 I also work with businesses who have business sales team.

52:07 So if anybody wants to talk about coaching but with me, or

52:10 do you want to even discuss something, feel free to connect.

52:12 Great. Thank you so much.

52:14 Thank you for having me, Karen. Thanks for listening to this

52:20 episode of Mind One. If you enjoyed the conversation,

52:23 don't forget to follow and share it with anyone who needs to hear

52:26 it. And let's keep the conversation

52:28 going. Connect with me on LinkedIn or

52:30 leave me a comment. Until next time, stay curious,

52:34 keep exploring, and let's continue to plan our minds and

52:37 discover what's possible.